Chimney breast removal, no building control docs, what to do?

A0911

I'm a FTB close to exchange on a Victorian end terrace. Seller very keen to get it all done before the end of this tax year.

Survey flagged that ground floor chimney breast had been removed in the kitchen. First floor is still in place. It is a party wall (but there is an alleyway outside up to first floor level, so the walls are not completely joined). He wasn't able to get in the loft.

The removal wasn't done by the current owner and has been in place a minimum of 11 years, possibly a lot longer. The surveyor didn't note any particular concerns but advised me strongly to push for regularisation/inspection by building control, or at the very least get it checked by a structural engineer.

The seller has offered the standard indemnity insurance through the solicitor. Seems like options are:

1. Accept effectively useless indemnity, take view that if it hasn't fallen down so far then it's probably OK.

2. Accept indemnity but insist on it being checked by a structural engineer too. Happy to foot cost, including making good any damage.

3. Push for regularisation.

My main concern is safety - that's it. I've done a lot of reading online about this and views range from 'you'll get indemnity, take it or leave it' to 'you'd be an idiot not to get it checked properly, chimneys can and do suddenly collapse without warning'.

My thought is to move in and then get it checked out by a SE, but if it turns out to need £5k+ worth of work to make it safe or remove it then I'll be somewhat kicking myself for not negotiating that off the price. I would add that I'm the kind of person for whom it will hang over me, and I'll have to get it checked either way for peace of mind.

Would appreciate any thoughts and/or experiences.

Doozergirl

Option 2.  I'd like to know something is safe.   I'd be okay with Option 1 after that.  

If you then do carry out work then it's worth putting it in as a new building regs application because you have done it correctly.    Remedial work won't cost that much, the biggest messiest jobs have been done, it's just supporting it correctly.  

FreeBear

A0911 said: Survey flagged that ground floor chimney breast had been removed in the kitchen. First floor is still in place.

My main concern is safety - that's it. I've done a lot of reading online about this and views range from 'you'll get indemnity, take it or leave it' to 'you'd be an idiot not to get it checked properly, chimneys can and do suddenly collapse without warning'.

My thought is to move in and then get it checked out by a SE, but if it turns out to need £5k+ worth of work to make it safe or remove it then I'll be somewhat kicking myself for not negotiating that off the price. I would add that I'm the kind of person for whom it will hang over me, and I'll have to get it checked either way for peace of mind.

A structural surveyor will want (need) to lift floorboards to see how the remains are being supported - The vendors are unlikely to allow this.

Niece bought herself a Victorian terrace last year (silly girl didn't get a survey, and trusted father's opinion). The fireplace/chimney had been removed at some point from the rear reception room, but the flue upstairs was left in place. I had a look under the floorboards and found no support..... Fortunately, the flue is only one brick square, so is self corbelling off the party wall and adjacent spine wall. Have told her to get the professional opinion of a qualified SE just to be sure.

A0911

Doozergirl said:

Option 2.  I'd like to know something is safe.   I'd be okay with Option 1 after that.  

If you then do carry out work then it's worth putting it in as a new building regs application because you have done it correctly.    Remedial work won't cost that much, the biggest messiest jobs have been done, it's just supporting it correctly.  

Thank you Doozergirl, your posts on this topic spanning many years have been hugely helpful. I think it looks like either way I'll get it checked and sorted, it's just whether I ask the seller to contribute to the cost. He will be reluctant as he didn't do it and will argue it has stood X many years.

However he also didn't take the opportunity to install a party firewall in the loft when he had the roof done, so I'm minded to ask for a reduction under the general heading 'things I need to do to make this house safe'.

Will also definitely get building regs. The other reason to ask for money off is the huge PITA this will be if I come to sell it. I don't plan to but you never know.

Doozergirl

These things tend to run more smoothly if you offer them up with a solution in the beginning eg. An indemnity.  

If nothing needs doing and you do go to sell in the future, you'll have something from the structural engineer to offer proactively as well as an indemnity policy.  Case closed at that point!    

horsewithnoname

This was the case on my house, I paid the indemnity and 20 years on it’s not collapsed so I reckon it’s ok. 

diystarter7

Hi OP

Get it checked out for peace of mind, no other options just get it checked.
Also, ensure the check the floorboards in that area and means of support

Thnaks

A0911

Thanks so much all, I've got a structural engineer to come out on Monday to lift the floorboards and do an assessment.

diystarter7

A0911 said:

Thanks so much all, I've got a structural engineer to come out on Monday to lift the floorboards and do an assessment.

Hi OP

If I was you, I'd read up up onn what is required, ie how the bricks/chimney should be held up, RSJ's metal plates etc etc

Has the SE given you a quote?

Either way, good luck as you are doing the right thing for peace of mind and safety for yourself/family/etc

A0911

diystarter7 said:

A0911 said:

Thanks so much all, I've got a structural engineer to come out on Monday to lift the floorboards and do an assessment.

Hi OP

If I was you, I'd read up up onn what is required, ie how the bricks/chimney should be held up, RSJ's metal plates etc etc

Has the SE given you a quote?

Either way, good luck as you are doing the right thing for peace of mind and safety for yourself/family/etc

Thanks, that's very kind! My own research has shown a cost of between £3.5-5k depending on whether I choose to remove the rest of the chimney, install RSJ etc - including party wall agreement and calcs.

SE should be able to give me an estimate on Monday. My main concern is how urgent it is, if it's something that can be left a bit then that's fine, I'll just make sure I save up and get it done to regs. Joys of old houses!

Ectophile

If the seller is desperate to sell in a hurry, then make sure you take advantage of it.  If it's going to cost a significant amount of money to fix properly, adjust your offer to take account of that.  Make it the seller's problem.

There's not much chance they will get another buyer before the end of the tax year.