Help With End of Tenancy

newsgroupmonkey_

I'd go one stage further re: the mattress.

They only have an 8 year lifespan

https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Product_Lifespans_Guide_NRLA_version_Updated_Feb_2021.pdf

Tommy8

ArbitraryRandom said:

Anything like that table given to you AFTER you signed the tenancy agreement are irrelevant unless explicitly referred to in the contract (eg. something like 'End of tenancy cleaning: See annex 1: Cleaning where pets are present')

If there are no pictures and no inventory provided at the start of the tenancy then claim the deposit back in full, wait for them to counter claim and then agree the damage to the carpet, but nothing else. 

Re the mattress... it will depend on the correspondence you have. If they said you could get rid of the mattress as end of life or if they said it was okay for you to get a new mattress if you want one. Remembering that any claim will be for the value of the second hand mattress you got rid of - so maybe 50-70% of the value (depending on the quality, therefore the expected life span of the like for like replacement). Alternatively, you could buy a cheap 'bed in a box' mattress?

Thankyou for the response @Arb@ArbitraryRandom. 

No mention of this check out schedule in the tenancy agreement (cant see and appendixes etc).

With regards to the mattress the exact words from the estate agent are the following: "I have spoken to your landlord about the mattress and he advised that the furniture was left in there by a previous tenant. Your landlord has advised that unfortunately they are not in a position to renew this but have said if you want to buy your own mattress and dispose of the old one then they are happy for you to do this". 

Best Regards

Tom

RAS

What exactly does it say about the mattress in the much delayed inventory?

Brand new,  pocket sprung (brand) or "mattress." 

ArbitraryRandom

Tommy8 said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Anything like that table given to you AFTER you signed the tenancy agreement are irrelevant unless explicitly referred to in the contract (eg. something like 'End of tenancy cleaning: See annex 1: Cleaning where pets are present')

If there are no pictures and no inventory provided at the start of the tenancy then claim the deposit back in full, wait for them to counter claim and then agree the damage to the carpet, but nothing else. 

Re the mattress... it will depend on the correspondence you have. If they said you could get rid of the mattress as end of life or if they said it was okay for you to get a new mattress if you want one. Remembering that any claim will be for the value of the second hand mattress you got rid of - so maybe 50-70% of the value (depending on the quality, therefore the expected life span of the like for like replacement). Alternatively, you could buy a cheap 'bed in a box' mattress?

Thankyou for the response @Arb@ArbitraryRandom. 

No mention of this check out schedule in the tenancy agreement (cant see and appendixes etc).

With regards to the mattress the exact words from the estate agent are the following: "I have spoken to your landlord about the mattress and he advised that the furniture was left in there by a previous tenant. Your landlord has advised that unfortunately they are not in a position to renew this but have said if you want to buy your own mattress and dispose of the old one then they are happy for you to do this". 

Best Regards

Tom

I would say that would be the landlord acknowledging the mattress needed replacing at their cost, so would be a reasonable (85% confident) assumption you could keep your new mattress.

It also goes towards proving the mattress is older than your tenancy, so would factor in any claim value re expected life of a mattress of that quality/betterment.  

This might help with how the deposit services approach these types of claims: 

(where there's no evidence from the start of the tenancy) https://www.mydeposits.co.uk/content-hub/case-study-damage-cleaning-and-reports/

(betterment) https://www.mydeposits.co.uk/content-hub/deposit-dispute-case-study-replacement-mattresses-fair-wear-tear/

propertyrental

Tommy8 said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Anything like that table given to you AFTER you signed the tenancy agreement are irrelevant unless explicitly referred to in the contract (eg. something like 'End of tenancy cleaning: See annex 1: Cleaning where pets are present')

If there are no pictures and no inventory provided at the start of the tenancy then claim the deposit back in full, wait for them to counter claim and then agree the damage to the carpet, but nothing else. 

Re the mattress... it will depend on the correspondence you have. If they said you could get rid of the mattress as end of life or if they said it was okay for you to get a new mattress if you want one. Remembering that any claim will be for the value of the second hand mattress you got rid of - so maybe 50-70% of the value (depending on the quality, therefore the expected life span of the like for like replacement). Alternatively, you could buy a cheap 'bed in a box' mattress?

....

With regards to the mattress the exact words from the estate agent are the following: "I have spoken to your landlord about the mattress and he advised that the furniture was left in there by a previous tenant. Your landlord has advised that unfortunately they are not in a position to renew this but have said if you want to buy your own mattress and dispose of the old one then they are happy for you to do this". 

So no need to leave a mattress. Take your mattress with you.

Is this document something I need to sign? There's no mention of a "Schedule of Condition" document in our tenancy agreement. 

Ignore. No need to sign. Signing just commits you to agreeing to comply with things you currently do not need to comply with!

Tommy8

RAS said:

What exactly does it say about the mattress in the much delayed inventory?

Brand new,  pocket sprung (brand) or "mattress." 

It states; "leather effect bed base with mattress in good clean condition". 

In reality the mattress was extremely lumpy which we put up with for a while as we couldn't afford a new one at the time, however I know this information is insignificant. 

Tommy8

*UPDATE*

Hi All, 

Just to bring this post up to speed (if its at all useful for people in the same boat at the present or in the future). 

The letting agency have significantly surpassed our expectations of them being extremely un-cooperative, unreasonable and demanding. 

They have stated they are taking all of our deposit and asking for more money. 

This according to them is due to the following:

1) We ended up using the company (aka their mates company) to carry out a professional clean. This was actually due to the workload we have on, we didn't have the time or energy to do a clean ourselves. They quoted £180 to £220 maximum (30% of the deposit). 

2) Some of the landing floorboards are "spongy" to stand on. We noticed this right at the end of the tenancy and i did not report it as a maintenance issue as i had so much on i forgot. I do not know the exact cause at present but an educated guess would be the boards in question are directly on the other side of the bathroom wall. We have had two leaks from the bath in the time we have been there, one of which was significant and made its way through the kitchen roof directly below. 
They have blamed our cats for peeing in the corner and are charging us for the replacement of the floorboards. Now i dont know about you but the amount of cat urine it would take to destroy the rigidity of floorboards must be significant and over a serious period of time, not to mention the extremely pungent smell which definitely would have been noticeable. We would have noticed this way before now if it was the cats. Not to mention for the last two / three years we have stored a heated airier in that corner leaning against the wall, therefore giving the cats an oddly shaped barrier to urinate around. At some point during our tenancy we would have seen one of the cats squatting and definitely smelt it!

Do i have a right to see and smell for myself?

3) The bush outside is overgrown in their opinion. I have returned the garden to a well trimmed standard, not so much the bush in question but that's because it is not so overgrown that I thought it required trimming. Further more the unsigned by me inventory report from when we moved in shows the garden in an overall overgrown state. The bush I question makes a small appearance in one small photo and isn't shown in its entirety. I have returned the garden in what i believe to be a better overall state. 

4) The landing carpet has been picked by the cats. I accept this one as its true, the cats did pick slightly at the corner near the bathroom door. I am sceptical however, as with regard to their actions thus far, it wont surprise me if they are charging an absolute fortune to replace this small section. I have already investigated prior to this and have deduced the section covers the small landing and two steps. I am ready to fight if their charge is significantly more than justified. 

Being honest I'm massively sceptical of everything they do now. They have said they are getting a contractor in to check the floorboards with regard to what I believe it is. It wouldn't surprise me if they get their mate in just to say it smells of cat urine, or even wee in the corner themselves to help their argument. 

Cant stand the stress of this constant "legal" battle and cannot wait for it to be over, however i am willing to go to the nth degree. 

propertyrental

Have you referred this to the arbitrators?

Tommy8

propertyrental said:

Have you referred this to the arbitrators?

Not yet. 

I am still awaiting specific details on the charges being put to me (invoices etc). 

I replied to their email stating that I do not agree with them and i will dispute. 

With regard to the spongy floorboards i suggested that it may be a leak from the bathroom due to the nature of the problem and the fact there is history of leaks. They replied by sending in a contractor to investigate and lo and behold the guy found a leak. The silicone on the side of the bath is loose therefore allowing shower water to run down the wall and under the bath. However, they are still blaming it on the cats, unbelievable! They have basically said its 50/50 leak and cats. 

Within the email they sent back clarifying there is a leak, they have got to town on us. They have attempted to deformate mine and my wife's character. They have "digged" at our cleanliness. They are unbelievably stubborn. 

The funny thing is, we have had 3 years and 9 months worth of "6 Monthly" inspections and not once has any cleanliness, urine odour issue been brought up, in fact during one of the visits we were complimented verbally at how tidy and well presented our house always is when they visit. 

I'm not sure what's next. I'm guessing I state that I disagree with them and at some point if we still cant agree it then gets forwarded to the TDS? Then maybe even onto court after that? 

RAS

Rather than waste time, just refer this to the arbitrators.