Notification of increase - Timescales? - PLUS Query new DD from 1/4/23

Scot_39

RG2015 said:

I believe that there is a very strong possibility that the existing EPG will remain in place for the next quarter.

Thus the E.ON quote which I have as received as well for my fix expiring on 31st March should remain valid.

I will come back and post if and when I receive any notifications from E.ON.

PS. For those interested the daily usage tab on the E.ON app is up and running again with new and marginally better graphical data.

For SR there might be small  regional shifts again just as there were in Jan.

The epg is an average - its balance can shift as Ofgem re-evaluates regional pricing.

We already know the SC are going up - so unless The existing quote based on those and not rhis quarter the new figure will need to reflect these- averages 46-53 very regional and 28 to 29 fixed for gas. C8p a day = c£30pa for duel fuel.

For multirate - the Ofgem MR (E7, E10 etc etc) vs SR table difference has changed again.  So that will impact these tariffs again.  Just as it did in Jan. 

Given Hunt hasn't AFAIK confirmed yes or no to freeze, I am guessing there is a change due for anyone and everyone, to hit on quite aptly April fools day.

A nasty one for electric if he allow rise if ML figures true - and Schapps didn't correct him on Tues ? night tv show.

Scot_39

Mstty said:

Yeah I'm not sure it is for energy companies to outline the EPG discounts on the SVT until your first bill. 

All the reduction rates are on the gov.uk EPG information part of their website and the new reduction rates will be confirmed we suspect on 15th March within the budget.

I get this may be confusing for many and expect we may see a flurry of similar posts on here that "My energy company is screwing me over etc etc"

EOn notifications to me were the discounted  rates not the gross. As was the total cost in email and attached letter.

The first bill/statement was the first time I saw the gross rates and gross - 17p ex vat style calcs. 

And only that first monthly bill / statement - used the gross rates for my annual total cost prediction figure in error.

Just a missed epg adjustment I guess.

A mini panic ( a what the hell's going on here moment) ensued till it then quickly clicked it was missing the discount - 1000s of 17ps really soon adds up.

And it gave me a really lasting perspective of the value of the EPG - which has really stuck in my mind.

So did the same as an exercise when the Jan bill came in.  1000s of 31.84s add up even faster. Just to see what might have been.

Scot_39

Sea_Shell said:

Scot_39 said:

Sea_Shell said:

frugalmacdugal said:

Hi,

when your fix ends you will default to the SVT applicable at that time.

Yes, I understand that too.

I'm talking about them notifying me, again, and telling me something different to my received "quote".

I know what's going on.  Many people don't, so I wanted to ask if ADDITIONAL notification would be made and when?

For Oct mines came - about 1 week before - for Dec just over 2 weeks before the change.

But you WILL be notified of the revised total - and the rates in a formal price change summary letter attached to it - by email  if on-line account etc or by letter.

Thanks, that has answered my question. 


To close matters, I'll let you all know when my email is received, and how much notice they end up giving.

But just in case you haven't heard at that sort of notice - contact them again.

Their system obviously has produced a svt illustration based on current rates.

So would hope they now have you on their variable radar.

But you might just be unlucky and caught in a funny transition window.

Sea_Shell

I doubt I'll contact them TBH.   My querying of timescales was out of curiosity, not need.

As long as they get the actual bill right.

Diaried to give a reading on the 20th April.

Interested to see if the IHD amends itself, and how quickly.

RG2015

Sea_Shell said:

I doubt I'll contact them TBH.   My querying of timescales was out of curiosity, not need.

As long as they get the actual bill right.

Diaried to give a reading on the 20th April.

Interested to see if the IHD amends itself, and how quickly. 

Good point, and after the warning from Scot_39 about possible switchover problems, I will keep a very close eye on my data online and on the IHD for the days around my changeover date.

agentcain

Scot_39 said:

agentcain said:

vic_sf49 said:

Sea_Shell said:

frugalmacdugal said:

Hi,

when your fix ends you will default to the SVT applicable at that time.

Yes, I understand that too.

I'm talking about them notifying me, again, and telling me something different to my received "quote".

I know what's going on.  Many people don't, so I wanted to ask if ADDITIONAL notification would be made and when?

I'm with Octopus, and for the January rate change, they emailed me on the 28th December.

So advance notification... just.

Edited to add...this is the info they sent me for my electric account, which is nice and clear at least...

Anyone noticed the "fixed term tarrifs not offered because they make no sense" disclaimer?

Surely they make sense if these cowboys actually provide benefit to the market by properly hedging, thus offering lower cost energy to those willing to lock themselves in a rate under contract.

I guess those in power will never figure it out.

Fixed contracts don't exist purely to always let you - the consumer - win.

Before the rush to the bottom - and mass competition and undercutting by the small firms - who don't exist any more - you ever asked why ? - the big firms used to issue fixes.

These were actually more expensive than the current rates to begin with - not the cheap deals you expect - paying a premium to secure the rate security.  They were not designed to give you a cheaper deal over the fix period - just the certainty.

None were priced for another war or energy crisis.

We are - or at least Russia and Ukraine are - in a war, we are still in an energy crisis.

These old fixes were a derisking strategy more than a money saving strategy.

Those predictions are now far more difficult.

There is no guarantee that Cornwall Insight are right on July - let alone Oct - or beyond. At times they have produced estimates less than a week apart with 10% price variation.

In one of the oil crisis - oil prices doubled early in first year - looked as if had stabilised - so people thought the worst was over - then doubled again by the following year. Nothing is certain.

And all suppliers - are now very aware of the volatility.

An important lesson forgotten from the previous energy crisis by all involved in the regulator and the board room of many a failed company.

If you want to benefit from todays market price - buy all of your electricity today.

Anything else is a risk to the supplier, the reseller.  And that risk has costs. Real costs.

If you want to expose yourself to the volatility - take on a policy like Agile Companies - suppliers on say 2% profit margin - may now be far more reluctant to.

Probably works great on average right now during the price ramp down - and surprisingly with EPG discount protection built in (which is a little cheaky) by bypassing the lag - but you take the risk. In a stable market - becomes far more interesting.

If you want to benefit from the peak smoothing and certainty of Ofgem pricing - accept the implicit lags of their past purchasing model based pricing - then accept the lag on the way down - just as you benefitted from it on the way up.

ML thinks some are proposing bringing fixes back - even he said - on Tues TV show - doesn't know if they will be worth taking.

New fixes - are unlikely to be the free for all rush to the bottom they were at the failed suppliers.

If they are - Ofgem definitely need a clear out.

A bit of a patronising tone, but anyway.
Assuming it's the case as you describe it, it proves the point that all those suppliers are pretty much useless, increasing cost by their profit overhead and latest mismanagement.

There is no design as you imagine it. When you commit yourself to wholesale, there is an inherent discount coming from the guarantee of custom. If I am a generator and you want to buy as a supplier X MWhrs, I can use the increased revenue to fund my business, my investments, my research, whatever. Ultimately, I plan for the future and for that you pay a better price.
You're looking at it from a wrong perspective, that of the customer who pays more for the "ease of mind", which is only true if energy goes up. What if it goes down? You won't leave your fix penalty free. But energy never goes down, does it? Well, that's what they made you believe and for this reason they won. That's why we will never escape this capitalistic nightmare. 

EssexHebridean

Taking a fix for ease of mind still applies even if prices fall - the initial consideration of the fix should include “how will I feel if prices drop?” and should also be taking into account the costs to opt out of the fix later if needed. It’s similar to fixing your mortgage rate - rates might drop, and you wish you were on a lower rate, but the reasons for fixing (knowing you can afford the payments and being able to budget ahead further) still apply just the same. 

RG2015

Sea_Shell said:

Morning all.

We're due to come off a fix with Eon in mid-April, and as expected, they have confirmed that our new tariff will be Next Flex.    They have given us the figures (our "quote") as per the "current" rates, not the rates that will (or might not!*) apply from 1st April.    They are accurate in that sense, correct usage etc.

I've never been on the SVT before (always been a switcher) and so am unsure what notification they have to give us (if any) to changes in pricing on the SVT.

So, do they have to give a specific period of notification, or is it something woolly like " a reasonable period" ?

I'm assuming the "quote" that I've had isn't worth the paper it's written on if the EPG "cap" changes.     

Will they likely send a revised "quote" between now and 20th April? 

Thanks



* Watched ML last night, and AIUI, even if they keep the EPG at '£2500', the make up of the rates is still likely to change, with a higher standing charge.

E.ON are now showing the revised prices on my quote online from 1 April 2023.

This incorporates the updated EPG and Ofgem standing charge rates.

See my post on the link below.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79925238#Comment_79925238

Sea_Shell

RG2015 said:

Sea_Shell said:

Morning all.

We're due to come off a fix with Eon in mid-April, and as expected, they have confirmed that our new tariff will be Next Flex.    They have given us the figures (our "quote") as per the "current" rates, not the rates that will (or might not!*) apply from 1st April.    They are accurate in that sense, correct usage etc.

I've never been on the SVT before (always been a switcher) and so am unsure what notification they have to give us (if any) to changes in pricing on the SVT.

So, do they have to give a specific period of notification, or is it something woolly like " a reasonable period" ?

I'm assuming the "quote" that I've had isn't worth the paper it's written on if the EPG "cap" changes.     

Will they likely send a revised "quote" between now and 20th April? 

Thanks



* Watched ML last night, and AIUI, even if they keep the EPG at '£2500', the make up of the rates is still likely to change, with a higher standing charge.

E.ON are now showing the revised prices on my quote online from 1 April 2023.

This incorporates the updated EPG and Ofgem standing charge rates.

See my post on the link below.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79925238#Comment_79925238

Thanks for that.

I still wonder if/when they'll tell me 😉

agentcain

EssexHebridean said:

Taking a fix for ease of mind still applies even if prices fall - the initial consideration of the fix should include “how will I feel if prices drop?” and should also be taking into account the costs to opt out of the fix later if needed. It’s similar to fixing your mortgage rate - rates might drop, and you wish you were on a lower rate, but the reasons for fixing (knowing you can afford the payments and being able to budget ahead further) still apply just the same. 

It's not the same
Mortgage rates are based on an arbitrary entity, fiat money. Money is not extracted from the earth nor do we collect it from trees. The central bank decides when to change the base rates and for how much, according to the will of the government serving a specific economic system.
Energy is largely limited by it's supply and how economical is to extract its resources and generate it, which is primarily an engineering issue. The problem is that the market is not set this way, as seen by SOLR costs, KWHr costs set by the most expensive fuel etc . They essentially made energy into another entity to be traded as if on the stock market. 

You are talking about a false sense of security as we recently saw. What happened to those fixes that people had with suppliers that went bust? They were never honoured. If your lender goes bust, and let's face it they never will because the government won't allow it, you should lose your debt to them. Can't see what's wrong with that.