What type of shower can I have?

sho_me_da_money

Appreciate that Mike and Plumb.

So im confused a little bit again. In my first post I showed you a YouTube video of this shower

https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/hansgrohe-raindance-select-e-showerpipe-300-with-showertablet-select-300-thermostatic-shower-chrome-27127000

I showed that video to the installer and he said NO, i cant have that shower installed. You guys kindly helped me understand as long as I have right bar pressure and correct 150mm centers, I am good to go. So looking at the link above, that shower that 150mm centers.

So what do I need to look at on that link above to know I cannot have that shower in my setup?

Do you guys agree that I cannot have this shower?

plumb1_2

You need to get your plumber to check the rates, in that link the shower operates at minimum 1.5 bar and flow rate of 16/19 l/m . So if the rates are bad it’s not gonna work correctly. So you might need pumps 
what sort of hot/cold water set up do you have 

Gavin83

sho_me_da_money said:

Appreciate that Mike and Plumb.

So im confused a little bit again. In my first post I showed you a YouTube video of this shower

https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/hansgrohe-raindance-select-e-showerpipe-300-with-showertablet-select-300-thermostatic-shower-chrome-27127000

I showed that video to the installer and he said NO, i cant have that shower installed. You guys kindly helped me understand as long as I have right bar pressure and correct 150mm centers, I am good to go. So looking at the link above, that shower that 150mm centers.

So what do I need to look at on that link above to know I cannot have that shower in my setup?

Do you guys agree that I cannot have this shower?

Did the installer explain why you can’t have that shower?

That shower expects threaded connectors protruding slightly from the wall so that might be the reason. Adding those to your existing pipes would likely be difficult as you’d have to channel a fair amount of concrete out to get the purchase for tightening the compression fitting. Plus putting a compression fitting there is a bad idea anyway. You need something that can connect in some way to bare copper tails.

Also that coupling on the left hand pipe is in an extremely inconvenient place. Hopefully it won’t get in the way.

BUFF

In terms of shower type, if the bar pressure is a a bit on the low side, does one shower perform better than another e.g. mixer vs thermostatic. I have been told with a mixer I could add one of those pressure boosters but not sure if you can with a thermostatic one.

Thermostatic is a type of mixer shower (there are others such as manual, pressure-balancing etc.).
There are models of shower valves that perform better at low pressures (& flow) than others (also true of the shower head so you need to make sure that the combination is workable for your install).

Running off a combi pretty much rules out using a normal shower booster pump (you could increase the pressure to/through your combi though). 

ThisIsWeird

Smdm, it needs to be:

Thermostatic - because this'll maintain a set temp regardless of other taps being used, or the boiler temp fluctuating.

A Mixer - because it mixes the hot and cold.

Suitable for a combi, which means it'll be supplied from your mains. That means a highish pressure, usually around 1 bar upwards.

Being from a combi - Ie the mains - it also means it cannot be boosted with a pump (other than the pitiful 12lpm mains booster pumps for those with inadequate mains supplies).

The shower should mention that it's suitable for combi boilers - most will be.

The one you linked too is a crazy price - you can get high quality models for under half that price, but this has to be your personal choice. 

I think having the 15mm pipes coming out is fine - I'll soon be fitting a similar shower, tho' a modest Triton make. After the shower is tiled/panelled, mounting collars are slipped over the pipes, the pipe tails cut to the required length, the collars screwed through the tiles into the wall, and the pipes sealed to the collars with olives as usual. Then the mixer body bolts on - something like that.

Have you any idea what your mains flow is like? If not, try running your kitchen cold, full blast, into a pan for 10 seconds. Measure the number of litres, and times it by six to get lpm. Let us know.

sho_me_da_money

Gavin83 said:

sho_me_da_money said:

Appreciate that Mike and Plumb.

So im confused a little bit again. In my first post I showed you a YouTube video of this shower

https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/hansgrohe-raindance-select-e-showerpipe-300-with-showertablet-select-300-thermostatic-shower-chrome-27127000

I showed that video to the installer and he said NO, i cant have that shower installed. You guys kindly helped me understand as long as I have right bar pressure and correct 150mm centers, I am good to go. So looking at the link above, that shower that 150mm centers.

So what do I need to look at on that link above to know I cannot have that shower in my setup?

Do you guys agree that I cannot have this shower?

Did the installer explain why you can’t have that shower?

That shower expects threaded connectors protruding slightly from the wall so that might be the reason. Adding those to your existing pipes would likely be difficult as you’d have to channel a fair amount of concrete out to get the purchase for tightening the compression fitting. Plus putting a compression fitting there is a bad idea anyway. You need something that can connect in some way to bare copper tails.

Also that coupling on the left hand pipe is in an extremely inconvenient place. Hopefully it won’t get in the way.

He mentioned the thread mate as you said.

You need something that can connect in some way to bare copper tails.

I wish it was easy to search "shower that connects to bare copper tails" but its not. When searching for the right shower, what is the industry term or spec or config or diagram or line I am looking for that says this shower model connects to bare copper tails versus one that can't.

Like another one I like:

https://www.plumbworld.co.uk/hansgrohe-raindance-select-s-showerpipe-240-thermostatic-mixer-shower-27129000-18174-1271306

I have ZERO idea what i'd be looking for to learn if that can connect to bare copper tails or not.

I'd be grateful if you might be able to tell me a couple of showers like the Hansgrohe types I have posted that I can buy and use that don't have the thread issue and can connect to bare copper tails.

ThisIsWeird

I think they all do. 

The installation instructions will be available for your chosen showers, and that should confirm.

Hmm, no they don't! Just looked at the one for that last shower - there are threaded inserts in the wall, and seemingly no explanation of how to fit them. I'm confused.

ThisIsWeird

This kind will work - it's even push-fit on to the copper tails: https://www.plumbworld.co.uk/triton-eden-bar-thermostatic-mixer-shower-fixed-adjustable-head-unedthbmdiv-3221-1253485

I'd bet that most are like that - designed to take bare copper tails coming through neat holes in the panelling/tiles. It would be too much to expect to have to dig in to the wall to fit specific bushings, surely? 

BUFF

ThisIsWeird said:

I think they all do. 

The installation instructions will be available for your chosen showers, and that should confirm.

Hmm, no they don't! Just looked at the one for that last shower - there are threaded inserts in the wall, and seemingly no explanation of how to fit them. I'm confused.

Bar type showers are originally continental & typically were designed to have the fittings installed behind the wall panel before the panel was finished & then the valve itself was installed. Because of the volumes they are cheaper to produce than the traditional British style of exposed mixer .
For typical British use various types of brackets have been produced over the years to adapt. Obviously the British based manufacturers like Mira & Triton were best placed to design/provide for typical UK installs.

If you are happy with just a handshower & a sliding rail kit then something like https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-apt-rear-fed-exposed-chrome-thermostatic-shower/5898T should fit (but check the installation instructions for yourself).
If you want the option of fixed head or hand then the ERD version https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-apt-erd-rear-fed-exposed-chrome-thermostatic-diverter-shower/5839T
If you want that square look (but dearer) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mira-1-1901-001-Honesty-Square-Shower/dp/B07GG4MH3D
or the ERD version https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mira-1-1901-002-Honesty-Square-Shower/dp/B07GG3DPXF

If you want to adapt a typical continental bar shower then something like https://www.amazon.co.uk/Marflow-Shower-PL4-Fixing-Guarantee/dp/B0074HT4PE should work.

sho_me_da_money

Hey Buff, thanks for the recommendations.

Could I install either of the following in my current configuration:

https://www.plumbworld.co.uk/hansgrohe-raindance-select-s-showerpipe-240-thermostatic-mixer-shower-27129000-18174-1271306

or this

https://www.plumbworld.co.uk/hansgrohe-raindance-select-s-showerpipe-240-thermostatic-mixer-shower-27129000-18174-1271306

with this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Marflow-Shower-PL4-Fixing-Guarantee/dp/B0074HT4PE 

Or must it be Triton or Mira?