Appointeeship/Deputyship Advice

savings18

Hi all

I am new to the forum and looking for guidance on appointeeship/deputyship. My son lives in supportive living and a few years ago he was given very little help with his finances, and this resulted in him receiving a large bill for unpaid accommodation. We were unaware of this. He is unable to manage his money independently and will spend money on things that are detrimental to his health and wellbeing. This caused a lot of tension and was very difficult to manage.  We were advised by his social worker to ask the council to help and they offered to take appointeeship. They agreed to this, but only if they could apply for deputyship via a COP.

There have been delays in securing the COP application, and the council have only recently heard back from the court, so it is not yet finalised.  My son is now in a well-supported home, but money is still an issue, and he is unable to manage it independently. He gets a small allowance each day, but he often looks to renegotiate this and this can cause tension with his support carers.

My question is - Is there any significant disadvantages having the council in place as the appointed deputy via the court? I am concerned if we become appointees, as my son does not live with us, it will difficult to track and manage his finances, appointments etc.   Allowing the council to do it has meant that everything has been much more settled particularly for us as a family in the past year or so. And a much better relationship as it is not focused on any discussions on money or him accessing any savings (he only has a small amount and the council only agreed to get involved as it was so stressful)

The council have indicated they are happy to transfer the appointeeship/deputyship to us as his parents.

Thank you for any help or advice you can give – apologies for the length of this post but wanted to give context.

 

tacpot12

I think you have identified the advantages of letting the council take on this onerous  job. The only real downsides that I can see is that they might be slow or unfair with your son, but while you are still able to advocate for him, I think you should be able to resolve any such issues. It seems a good solution under the circumstances. 

savings18

Thank you Tacpot12 for your reply. Appreciate it. Difficult decision to make. 

elsien

Appointee and deputy two different things. A lot of people I know in supported living don’t have a deputy because they don’t have enough money to make it financially worthwhile given the ongoing cost so unless he’s got a large amount of savings I’m surprised that the local authority actually felt a deputyship was necessary.

In my area the local authority don’t take on either role - there is a paid appointee service via age UK or Penderels. For those who need a deputy it goes through a local solicitor and is completely separate from the local authority.
The appointee receives the benefits into their bank account, sits down with the person and draws up a budget, make sure all the regular bills are paid – rent and utilities, mobile phone et cetera, and how much they need for weekly groceries and personal spends. For those that can manage it there’s a payment card so they can buy things online or in shops but it has a weekly limit on it.  For those who would blow it all on the first day, then the provider gets cash and supports the person with how it’s used on a day-to-day basis. And the appointee makes sure there’s enough money left over for the bigger expenses like holidays, replacement furniture et cetera. It works pretty well for most people.
The preferences to ask family if I they want to take on the role first because it’s felt that’s what the person’s preference would probably be but there is no obligation on you to do so, and if you think it might be detrimental to your relationship then that is completely your decision to make.

And being slightly pedantic the local authority don’t transfer these over to you; the DWP facilitates any change of appointee and the court of protection would facilitate a change of deputy.

The only downside I’ve seen with the paid appointees service is the lack of specific information for the person. So a gentleman I worked with wanted to know what benefits he was getting, how much savings they had for him, what his bills were and they weren’t willing to answer those questions on the basis that he lacked capacity so they didn’t need to provide the information because he wouldn’t understand it anyway.  Which I felt was poor practice but they said it wasn’t possible to separate that level of detail out for one person on their bank statements. 

There’s also a bit of a tendency in care homes for them to buy things for people instead of giving the person the opportunity to go out and buy their own items with support. In supported living that is likely to be less of an issue.

savings18

Elsien, this is very helpful. Thank you for your insight.  I will ask the council if they deal with it directly or use an external  organisation. The best solution would be to have an external appointeee, as this would allow us to maintain a better relationship with our son, but, as mentioned, this is not something the council is prepared to provide without the Deputyship, in case my son decides not to allow them access to manage his finances. .

I am also going to go back and ask how complicated the appointeeship role is. Perhaps I am imagining it will be more complexed to manage than it actually is,  as it is already in place and up and running.  You mentioned that the DWP facilitates the change in appointeeship. Would you know what this entails? Many thanks.  

elsien

The appointee is very simply someone who manages the persons benefits for them if they lack capacity to do so for themselves. They don’t need to consent to it if that capacity assessment is in place. Which it must be if they’ve applied for a deputyship. But maybe your son has a load of money in a bank account which they can’t access without it. In which case he’s going to get quite cross with you whoever the deputy is if they need to take that money over on his behalf.

The process involves the current appointees relinquishing and then you filling in the forms to take over. They should then pass over to you any money they are already holding for him.Timescales can be variable. I was told recently it was about 8 to 12 weeks.
https://www.gov.uk/become-appointee-for-someone-claiming-benefits
So the benefits (PIP/ESA/UC/housing benefit etc)  are paid to the appointee. It’s probably better if it’s in a separate bank account to your own money which you might want to set up for the purpose. You then pay the money out as needed - if the housing benefit is being paid directly to the landlord you might want to leave it like that. You are also responsible for keeping track of his savings and letting the DWP know of any relevant change in circumstances- hospital admissions, filling in forms when needed, sending sick notes if relevant,  all the things you’d do for yourself if claiming benefits. 

I’m not sure how it would work with a separate appointee and deputy if you don’t want the deputyship. That’s another question you might want to ask.
And if you don’t want to do either, then you can just say to the local authority to leave things as they stand. 

elsien

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/deputy-guidance-how-to-carry-out-your-duties/sd3-how-to-be-a-property-and-affairs-deputy-web-version

williewonder

I have a deputyship as an intellectual disability psychologist deemed I lacked capacity. The deputyship is hold by client finance team at social services and it works well for me. They pay all my bills and I get £140 a week personal allowance. I'm able to save a considerable amount of money a month which enables me to travel abroad.

I have a question, I used to have a appointeeship until it changed to the deputyship, when I have to go for another assessment will the assessors now what a deputyship is?

poppy12345

williewonder said:

I have a question, I used to have a appointeeship until it changed to the deputyship, when I have to go for another assessment will the assessors now what a deputyship is?

They are 2 completely different things. An appointee is just for benefits purposes only.

savings18

elsien said:

The appointee is very simply someone who manages the persons benefits for them if they lack capacity to do so for themselves. They don’t need to consent to it if that capacity assessment is in place. Which it must be if they’ve applied for a deputyship. But maybe your son has a load of money in a bank account which they can’t access without it. In which case he’s going to get quite cross with you whoever the deputy is if they need to take that money over on his behalf.

The process involves the current appointees relinquishing and then you filling in the forms to take over. They should then pass over to you any money they are already holding for him.Timescales can be variable. I was told recently it was about 8 to 12 weeks.

So the benefits (PIP/ESA/UC/housing benefit etc)  are paid to the appointee. It’s probably better if it’s in a separate bank account to your own money which you might want to set up for the purpose. You then pay the money out as needed - if the housing benefit is being paid directly to the landlord you might want to leave it like that. You are also responsible for keeping track of his savings and letting the DWP know of any relevant change in circumstances- hospital admissions, filling in forms when needed, sending sick notes if relevant,  all the things you’d do for yourself if claiming benefits. 

I’m not sure how it would work with a separate appointee and deputy if you don’t want the deputyship. That’s another question you might want to ask.
And if you don’t want to do either, then you can just say to the local authority to leave things as they stand. 

Elsien thank you so much for your reply. The links have been very helpful. I will go back to our council and speak with the relevant depts as they have been helpful. 

savings18

Hi all,

I have question that links to this thread.

Is it possible to be a Deputy (COP) for someone, but assign the Appointeeship to a separate organisation, not the local council but to someone like Age UK?

We very much want to have Deputyship as parents but anything to do with money or budgeting causes tension and damages the relationship with our son. Having an external organisation involved as an appointee would provide a buffer.

Does anyone had experience of this?

Thank you for any replies.