Parking Charge Notice when paid for parking with app (slightly different times on app)

Umkomaas

For future reference, should this become a court case, you need to be aware of this persuasive judgment from the Court of Appeal. 

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/854.html

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6004010/ncp-appeal-tax-man-1-ncp-nil

donfruitella

Hi all - so an appeal was lodged using the blue text, and supplying the invoice for parking that was paid. This has been rejected as expected, with the following given:

We refer to your appeal in respect of the above Charge Notice (CN) received on XXXXXX

Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:

The signs at the car park make it clear that the land is private property and that a charge of £100 will be levied if vehicles park outside of the Terms and Conditions displayed. The signs make it clear that a valid ticket/permit to park must be purchased for the vehicle parked.

On this site motorists are permitted to use Parkonomy as an alternative method of making payment for parking. All Parkonomy parking sessions are virtual, which means that a paper ticket is not required to be displayed in the vehicle when parking using the Parkonomy service.

The above detailed vehicle was observed parked whilst payment for parking had not been correctly made and you became liable for the Charge Advertised.

In your appeal you have confirmed to us that on the date in question, you were the driver of the vehicle at the time it parked in the car park.

We note your comment that you purchased a period of parking using Parkonomy and acknowledge that you have provided a copy of your payment receipt with your appeal; in this case our enquires show that you purchased a period of parking from 14:00 to 16:00.The photographic evidence shows that your vehicle was already parked at 13:34 and therefore was parked before the Parkonomy session had started. On this occasion the vehicle was parked when no valid session to park had been paid for and therefore in the absence of a Pay & Display ticket, was parked contrary to the Terms and Conditions displayed.

A reasonable amount of time is allowed on the car park (Consideration Period) for drivers to park their vehicle, read the advertised Terms and Conditions displayed and then either purchase a valid Pay and Display ticket or leave the car park; on this occasion that Consideration Period was exceeded and as no valid ticket was purchased, you became liable for the Charge Notice issued.

We maintain that the signs on this site meet the requirements set by the International Parking Community (IPC) Code of Practice. The signs are large, prominent and legible ,so that any reasonable user of the car park would be aware of their existence and nature, and would have a fair opportunity to read them if he or she wished to do so. It can never be a defence to a claim in contract law to say, "I did not read the terms", so long as the existence of those terms is reasonably advertised.

We note your request for PDT machine data, however we must advise we are unable to provide this, as this information is not pertinent to you or your personal data. As this information relates to other motorists this cannot be supplied.

We have fully reviewed this case and we are satisfied that the Charge Notice was correctly issued. We are unable to accept the mitigating circumstances raised in your representations, your appeal is therefore rejected and the charge will stand; photographic evidence which supports this can be viewed at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk.

2What you should do next - Either:

1. Pay the Charge Notice (CN): In order to settle the Charge, the payment of £60 to reach us by 19/04/2023 or £100 to reach us by 03/05/2023 must be made. Failure to pay this charge within the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery Action being taken and further costs up to an additional £70 being incurred. Payments can be made online at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card.

OR:

2. Appeal to the Independent Appeals Services (IAS): If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the IAS. In order to appeal, the IAS will need the following information (which is also contained in the subject header of this correspondence).

Notice Serial No: XXXXXX Vehicle Registration Mark: XXXXXX

Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this correspondence. Please visit www.theias.org

for full details on how to submit an appeal online.

It is important you note that if you do make an appeal to the IAS, the reduced charge offered above will no longer apply. You should also be aware that if a payment is made prior to an appeal being made to, or adjudicated by, the IAS AND this is accepted as Full and Final settlement against the CN, the appeal will automatically be dismissed and the matter will be deemed closed. Should you appeal to the IAS and it is unsuccessful, the full amount outstanding (£100.00) will become payable within 14 days of the date the IAS decision is notified to you. Failure to pay this sum in the 14 day period will result in debt recovery costs of up to £70.00 being added to the outstanding balance.

It is important we also highlight that no further appeals will be accepted at this office; any such appeal must be made to the IAS.

Please also note that further costs may be incurred should it be necessary for us to subsequently recover any outstanding charge using further debt recovery and/or court action.

Yours sincerely

Any advice is greatly appreciated, going from the forum posts it seems as though IAS is a waste of time?

Thanks again

Coupon-mad

donfruitella said:

Hi, used this forum before, but not for many years now, hopefully someone can help.

I've received a PCN from a private car park that I use on a weekly basis. The charge is for a period of 114 minutes (13:34:02 - 15:28:40) on the day of the incident, with photographic evidence of my vehicle entering and exiting the car park.

I do have a receipt showing that I've paid for parking that day at that site, but for whatever reason it's down for 14:00 - 16:00 that day. So it isn't the exact same time, but it is 2 hours parking, and I've used the car park for under 2 hours. I must have had to download the app, or something, which made me late to start the parking.

Either way I've paid for 2 hours and that's what I've used, so I'm not going to pay the £100 they now want as well. 

---------------

Hi all - so an appeal was lodged using the blue text, and supplying the invoice for parking that was paid. This has been rejected as expected.

Any advice is greatly appreciated, going from the forum posts it seems as though IAS is a waste of time?

Do not try IAS.  It's considered a kangaroo court, based on all accounts we see and their own Annual Report stats.

DO NOT PAY.

Tell Watchdog about your case.

Watchdog are about to do a piece on the One Show.

They are asking for stories about parking apps and your case could be resolved and expose a real issue:
https://twitter.com/BBCWatchdog/status/1646490659572809728?cxt=HHwWgICwnYGiwdktAAAA

See new Tweets

BBC Watchdog

@BBCWatchdog

Do you use parking apps in car parks? 

We want to know how you're getting on with them. Love them? Convenient? Or Confusing? Frustrating? Prone to mistakes? Let us know!

Get in touch watchdog@bbc.co.uk 

donfruitella

Hi all, so (believe it or not) 30 days ago, one received a LBC (letter before claim) - this had been ignored as one assumed that was the standard protocol, but after further reading today, it seems like this isn't the best course of action. Today is the deadline to pay before legal action, and the LBC looks legit (reply forms etc). Assuming that now the next course of action is that they will proceed with court action?

Emailed watchdog as well btw, thanks for the continued help

Coupon-mad

donfruitella said:

Hi all, so (believe it or not) 30 days ago, one received a LBC (letter before claim) - this had been ignored as one assumed that was the standard protocol, but after further reading today, it seems like this isn't the best course of action. Today is the deadline to pay before legal action, and the LBC looks legit (reply forms etc). Assuming that now the next course of action is that they will proceed with court action?

You need to know that July is an important time for a private parking announcement from the DLUHC that you can use in your court defence, hence why you need to reply NOW.

You must respond to the LBC to kick the can down the road into August, by saying you are seeking debt advice and have been advised to look at the imminent DLUHC Impact Assessment (due July) which will affect the sums claimed.

Let them know you know the score and require a 30 day hold.

Loads of LBCs at the moment; the roboclaim greedy gits are no doubt hoping to get claims and inflated default CCJs secured before the DLUHC hopefully put the nail in the coffin of the false added £60/£70 'fee' add-on.

People must respond by email VERY robustly to a BW LBC and push it past July, when hopefully the house of cards will fall over.  

donfruitella

Fantastic, great thread. I'm a little bit confused as to when (and where) to send a defence, with you saying to reply NOW , but on the linked thread the advice seems to be to wait for this new judgement / update of guidelines.  

Guessing that I also just have to wait until I'm next contacted following the LBC as well?

Cheers

Coupon-mad

Just edited my reply. Makes more sense?

Respond so they know you know about the Government's draft Impact Assessment being due.

Get a 30 day hold by saying you are seeking debt advice.

KeithP

donfruitella said:

I'm a little bit confused as to when (and where) to send a defence...

Where's the confusion?
There has been no suggestion that you file a Defence.
Worry about a Defence after you have received a County Court Claim.

The current suggestion by @Coupon-mad above, is that you respond robustly to their Letter Before Claim.

Coupon-mad

TBF I edited it!

donfruitella

Ok cheers, and thanks for editing, will write to them saying I'm seeking debt advice. It's now past the 30 day deadline so hopefully they'll still accept that. Either way I'm happy to take to court as parking was paid for and didn't exceed the time, so.... Lol

Cheers