Communal Heating & Hot Water Charges

[Deleted User]

I'm a council tenant living in one bedroom flat with a communal heating and hot water system. (London Borough of Tower Hamlets)

The price is about to go up significantly, and I need to work out whether it's fair, and whether I can actually do anything to get it reduced:

The current weekly charge:

£2.96 for water
£8.71 for heating

The new weekly charge, from April 3rd:

£5.22 for hot water
£15.67 or heating.

This is payable weekly, all year round, but the heating is only on for 6 months out of the year -- so, the heating charge is actually double in 'real time' terms.

The hot water charge seems excessive because there is no bath -- I have an electric shower in a wet room installed by the council -- and as such, the most significant hot water use is paid out of my electricity bill. I might wash up once a day, and only run hot water in the bathroom for a few seconds at a time.

Do I have a case for getting this reduced, and if so how would I go about it?

Thanks

diystarter7

Hi OP

Ask the council for their criteria for working out and applying costs for heating/hot water per unit of property and take it from there.

Thnaks

[Deleted User]

diystarter7 said:

Hi OP

Ask the council for their criteria for working out and applying costs for heating/hot water per unit of property and take it from there.

Thnaks

From their rent increase explanation leaflet: "We base this charge on the size of the property or actual usage when heat meters are in operation" -- in my case, there are no heat meters, and as such it is based on property size.

I have a one bedroom flat, not that big -- less than 50 square meters at a guess.

Nebulous2

Although not completely comparable - this is a link about sheltered housing on the over 50s moneysaving forum that you might be interested in.  Sheltered housing and the energy discount. — MoneySavingExpert Forum

[Deleted User]

Yes, it vaguely matches my situation but doesn't offer any real solution.

There's a claim that my council 'bought in' all of last year's energy at 2022 prices, but that's not entirely correct as the leaseholders' association is responsible for our communal boiler.

I think the water charge is excessive -- there's no way I spend £21 a month turning on a couple of taps, but I'm a bit scared to challenge the heating charge as it may end up even higher. 🤔

Scot_39

[Deleted User] said:

I'm a council tenant living in one bedroom flat with a communal heating and hot water system. (London Borough of Tower Hamlets)

The price is about to go up significantly, and I need to work out whether it's fair, and whether I can actually do anything to get it reduced:

The current weekly charge:

£2.96 for water
£8.71 for heating

The new weekly charge, from April 3rd:

£5.22 for hot water
£15.67 or heating.

This is payable weekly, all year round, but the heating is only on for 6 months out of the year -- so, the heating charge is actually double in 'real time' terms.

The hot water charge seems excessive because there is no bath -- I have an electric shower in a wet room installed by the council -- and as such, the most significant hot water use is paid out of my electricity bill. I might wash up once a day, and only run hot water in the bathroom for a few seconds at a time.

Do I have a case for getting this reduced, and if so how would I go about it?

Thanks

I know it's a large rise - but others have faced a similar rise - in the past x months - despite all the govt help - and unless CofE Hunt reverses EPG - we all face another c20% rise in April.

Wholesale gas - last I saw - was still around 3x the rate per therm - as it was pre Ukraine. And at times was closer to maybe 10.

See graphs at e.g.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/latest-energy-price-cap-announced-ofgem

Some private tennant block common heating systems terms - meant they were fully exposed to those spikes.  You have not directly - but the supplying subcontractor / council probably has been - and so part now be baked into this years rates.

Sadly even c£21 per week - just under £100 pm / £1100 per year - really isn't excessive these days for heat and hot water.

For instance their is a post from an elderly person here - whos quarterly bill - last 3months for a studio flat was £940 - largely I suspect heating - but was still reporting his flat was cold.

I guess he would really love to be in your situation heat wise re past c£50pm now still £100pm costs.

I wouldn't like this in any way to encourage you to waste it - but it certainly should mean - as unmetered - you don't have to risk health by feeling freezing or cold all day - or live in a damp moldy flat (say 14-15C min needed to avoid) - experienced by other tennants and even owners - who find cannot afford to heat / ventillate adequately to prevent it.

Scot_39

[Deleted User] said:

Yes, it vaguely matches my situation but doesn't offer any real solution.

There's a claim that my council 'bought in' all of last year's energy at 2022 prices, but that's not entirely correct as the leaseholders' association is responsible for our communal boiler.

I think the water charge is excessive -- there's no way I spend £21 a month turning on a couple of taps, but I'm a bit scared to challenge the heating charge as it may end up even higher. 🤔

My hot water alone - I estimate costs about £0.70p / a day - as het be electric -  at an off-peak rate - over a £1 at the current 34p EPG rate.  Gas would be far cheaper - maybe 30p.

A lot of water is wasted on the run from the central boiler every use (all that ambient / too cold to use from the pipes - adds up)

But the combined total - is not silly - and as unmetered - the council will be looking at total use - and distributing it - as best it can.

Overall the total as said above - is not silly - and the current lower rates - are probably the envy by almost everyone else who has read the post - given the price changes over last year.

[Deleted User]

Overall the total as said above - is not silly - and the current lower rates - are probably the envy by almost everyone else who has read the post - given the price changes over last year.

Yes, I hear you -- the bill above is for heating and hot water only and is charged all year round, including when it isn't running.

However, I have an electric shower and no bath -- so I still have to pay that from my general electricity bill, hence me thinking the hot water charge is excessive.

The central heating is only turned on for 5-6 months of the year, so really I'm paying around double the quoted price -- I guess spreading out through the year is better for budgeting.

Then my other bills, electric and gas work out about £25 a week.

All in, I think my total energy bill is currently around £180-200 a month (£540-600 per quarter) for a one bedroom flat all year round -- it feels excessive, but I guess that's just the way things are at the moment.

Without the communal system I'd probably be a lot worse off, especially as my flat is not double glazed.


For the record, I  am autistic (with a few mental health issues t'boot) and currently on disability benefits -- my income is pretty fixed for a while. 

Manchesterlodger

[Deleted User] said:

Overall the total as said above - is not silly - and the current lower rates - are probably the envy by almost everyone else who has read the post - given the price changes over last year.

Yes, I hear you -- the bill above is for heating and hot water only and is charged all year round, including when it isn't running.

However, I have an electric shower and no bath -- so I still have to pay that from my general electricity bill, hence me thinking the hot water charge is excessive.

The central heating is only turned on for 5-6 months of the year, so really I'm paying around double the quoted price -- I guess spreading out through the year is better for budgeting.

Then my other bills, electric and gas work out about £25 a week.

All in, I think my total energy bill is currently around £180-200 a month (£540-600 per quarter) for a one bedroom flat all year round -- it feels excessive, but I guess that's just the way things are at the moment.

Without the communal system I'd probably be a lot worse off, especially as my flat is not double glazed.


For the record, I  am autistic (with a few mental health issues t'boot) and currently on disability benefits -- my income is pretty fixed for a while. 

You have my sympathy - I started the link on the other thread because am in a similar position in that the communal heating system charges have been hiked to a ridiculous amount and the housing association have not been forthcoming about the reasons why the hike is so enormous (nevermind the fact that a lot of tenants can't afford to pay the increase).

Have you contacted Citizens Advice? I would, they may be able to help - if nothing else to check that you're getting everything you're entitled to and whether there are any other pots of money you can apply for (even a hardship fund). 

Personally I think it's immoral to expect low income tenants living with a communal heating system to bear the increased costs - in my case we've had a really old knackered boiler which regularly breaks down and is likely costing a lot more to run to begin with. Like you, I have an electric shower which I pay personal electric for. So the communal heating I use in the winter and the little hot water I use for washing up does not warrant an increase of £35 a week from April. 

I've approached my local councillor and she's taking it up with the MP as well. So that might also be an option to consider.

There's also a law firm that is launching a class action suite related to heating networks - which I might join if my housing association stops withholding the information I've been requesting from them as to who they have an energy contract with - details of the legal class action are here: https://www.leighday.co.uk/our-services/group-claims/heat-networks-group-claim/ 

[Deleted User]

Manchesterlodger said:

So the communal heating I use in the winter and the little hot water I use for washing up does not warrant an increase of £35 a week from April. 

I thought my increase was high, but that is just unbelievable! I kinda feel lucky now -- I take it you pay for yours all year around?

They've hiked up my rent and service charges too -- I can't remember how much at the moment, but it's more than the usual increase.

Similarly, our system breaks down a lot too -- and the leaseholders association (who own the freehold) avoid turning the heaters on for as long as possible (I started another thread on this months ago) -- last year, because of a problem with one of the boilers, the system ran on half-power for a month and so I was forced to use an electric heater to supplement the radiators.


My estate is not typical -- out of about 300 flats, only 35 of us are still council tenants. So, a few years ago some of the leaseholders got together and bought the freehold from Tower Hamlets Council -- while this has improved the overall cleanliness and look of the block, the management of funds has now caused a nightmare for both leaseholders and tenants, and they now don't want to spend anything on repairs.

chris_n

[Deleted User] said:

Then my other bills, electric and gas work out about £25 a week.

What is the gas for if you have communal heating?