Yet another Landlor & deposit

Lyhtem

Hi there 

it came to the end of my tenancy as i bought my own 4 walls 
renting was really pleasant as landlord didn't give us too much trouble 
heck she agreed to almost all of our requests and in return i was kind enough to do some stuff for her around the house, painting fences fixing some appliances patching up holes from previous tenants etc 

everything changed when it cane to checkout as she wants to deduct full amount of deposit 
she calculated it will be 450 for cleaning and another 450 for painting the whole house 

now i know perfectly well that cleaning is no go for her as
1 she wanted us to use particular company 
2 she wanted deep cleaning 

house was left in pretty much same state as we got it in the first place minus we didn't mop it as simply had not enough time, but upon requestin if we could have half a day or so to finish that was denied, then she went on about all the faded or rubbed paint (which should go under fair wear and tear)

no checkout report was made and no inventory at the start of tenancy was used only report she has is her scribbles in polish language (we do speak polish as well) where she lists deep cleaning and painting for wear and tear and pretty much bullied us to sign it, now after i confronted her and said that its pretty much illegal she's coming back to me adding random deductions  for example today (checkout was on 11th of jan) she says she needs to deduct further 98 quid for not working smoke alarm as the battery was not replaced, heck must be some crazy expensive batteries, even though she had full report from gas safety check and to my knowledge it's her responsibility to fix it 

in any case what would be your suggestion? 

on one hand i want to resolve it ASAP on the other it looks like shell keep trying to grasp on straws to get our money anyway 

theartfullodger

Take the issue to the deposit scheme that is protecting YOUR deposit and dispute the matter 
.
Provided by parliament after years and years of gready landlords ripping off tenants 

Mr.Generous

Apart from "running out of time to mop" and expecting the landlord to make another time available for you to do this, you have a good case. Take it to the deposit scheme, they bend over backwards to help tenants in cases like this. No inventory will mean landlord hasn't a chance.

And I'm a landlord!

propertyrental

Lyhtem said:

....... she wants to deduct full amount of deposit 
she calculated it will be 450 for cleaning and another 450 for painting the whole house 

now i know perfectly well that cleaning is no go for her as
1 she wanted us to use particular company 
Has the tenancy ended and have you moved out?
* if yes it's her choice who she uses, though the charges must be fair
* if no, she cannot dictate who you use.
2 she wanted deep cleaning 
 she can insist on this - provided the property was deep cleaned when you moved in (and she can prove this)

house was left in pretty much same state as we got it in the first place
so no deductions legally possible
 minus we didn't mop it as simply had not enough time,
OK - so was it 'mopped' when you moved in?
but upon requestin if we could have half a day or so to finish that was denied,
if the tenancy had ended and you'd moved out, you are too late to rectify. She is entitled to refuse you access.
then she went on about all the faded or rubbed paint (which should go under fair wear and tear)
Yes - almost certainly fair wear and tear. Do you have photos?

no checkout report was made and no inventory at the start of tenancy was used
problematic for her - how can she produce evidence if you dispute?

only report she has is her scribbles in polish language (we do speak polish as well) where she lists deep cleaning and painting for wear and tear and pretty much bullied us to sign it,
Oops! You signed something (Polish can be translated for the courts!) agreeing dep cleaning and painting was required?
Please quote exactly what you signed (in English.......)
now after i confronted her and said that its pretty much illegal she's coming back to me adding random deductions  for example today (checkout was on 11th of jan) she says she needs to deduct further 98 quid for not working smoke alarm as the battery was not replaced,  heck must be some crazy expensive batteries,
Yes. Challenge the amount (battery cost + labour)
 even though she had full report from gas safety check
and to my knowledge it's her responsibility to fix it 
Is it? Not sure... and if it is, the LL would be dependant on the T acting in a 'tenant-like manner' and reporting it as not working. Though I suspect if it's a simple battery replacement, yes that's a tenant's responsibility like replacing lightbulbs.

in any case what would be your suggestion? 

Apply for full deposit return from deposit scheme and let arbitrator decide.

TripleH

Apply for full deposit via the scheme, in your case, state you were jot given a check-in report to sign or check-out report.

Your landlady will have to justify her costs to the deposit scheme if she wants to make deductions.

[Deleted User]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is smoke alarms are a legal requirement and responsibility of the landlord full stop. My reading of the reg is, if battery cannot be replaced (some alarms are now sealed units), you would need to inform them once aware it’s not working, and then they’re obliged to replace (and certainly not at your cost). 

Renting, I’ve had replacement smoke alarms fitted, sometimes unnecessarily in my view, under the guise of the rules keeps changing and it had to be done.

macman

Everyone is assuming that the deposit was protected. I've got a funny feeling that it was not...
if so, counter-bill her for all the repairs and maintenance you did on the property.

propertyrental

[Deleted User] said:

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is smoke alarms are a legal requirement and responsibility of the landlord full stop. My reading of the reg is, if battery cannot be replaced (some alarms are now sealed units), you would need to inform them once aware it’s not working, and then they’re obliged to replace (and certainly not at your cost). 

Short of inspecting every month, or week, or day (think quiet enjoyment!) how can a LL ensure a fire/CO alarm remains in working order? Other than relying on the tenant to inform him?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/landlord-and-tenant-rights-and-responsibilities-in-the-private-rented-sector/landlord-and-tenant-rights-and-responsibilities-in-the-private-rented-sector

Says:

Look after the property
The law requires you to use the property in a “tenant-like” manner. This includes:

• reporting any repairs needed to your landlord or letting agent

• if possible, making sure your home is well ventilated (to help avoid condensation and damp)

• carrying out minor maintenance (such as checking smoke alarms are working and changing light bulbs)

and then later:

Regular testing
Test your smoke alarms and carbon monoxide detectors regularly – at least once a month. It is your responsibility as the tenant to ensure that the fire alarm remains in working order.

Actually I can't believe this applies to hard-wired alarms that stop working, but changing a battery is like changing a lightbulb....

The NRLA here says:

1. Smoke and carbon monoxide alarms

The most common cause of death in fire related incidents in 2018-19 was due to being overcome by gas or smoke – working smoke alarms save lives. Landlords are required by law to have at least one working smoke alarm installed on every floor of their rental properties and a carbon monoxide alarm in any room containing a solid fuel burning appliance. Landlords must also make sure alarms are in working order at the start of each new tenancy and should encourage tenants to continue to check alarms on a monthly basis. It’s also a good idea to inspect smoke and carbon monoxide alarms when carrying out routine property inspections.

Lyhtem

macman said:

Everyone is assuming that the deposit was protected. I've got a funny feeling that it was not...
if so, counter-bill her for all the repairs and maintenance you did on the property.

fortunately it is protected

Mr.Generous said:

Apart from "running out of time to mop" and expecting the landlord to make another time available for you to do this, you have a good case. Take it to the deposit scheme, they bend over backwards to help tenants in cases like this. No inventory will mean landlord hasn't a chance.

And I'm a landlord!

yeah it was all crazy and on very short notice due to our brokers messing up our mortgage application we only had one week to move out, hence why i asked for some extra time, which i bet they would not mind given that they have to deal with fixing ceiling in one of the bedroom after a leak that they waited to act on for over a week since we reported it. and yea even though they are working on it in both bedroom and upstairs bathroom, they still wanted to charge us for cleaning of those rooms 

propertyrental said:

[Deleted User] said:

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is smoke alarms are a legal requirement and responsibility of the landlord full stop. My reading of the reg is, if battery cannot be replaced (some alarms are now sealed units), you would need to inform them once aware it’s not working, and then they’re obliged to replace (and certainly not at your cost). 

Short of inspecting every month, or week, or day (think quiet enjoyment!) how can a LL ensure a fire/CO alarm remains in working order? Other than relying on the tenant to inform him?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/landlord-and-tenant-rights-and-responsibilities-in-the-private-rented-sector/landlord-and-tenant-rights-and-responsibilities-in-the-private-rented-sector

Says:

Look after the property
The law requires you to use the property in a “tenant-like” manner. This includes:

• reporting any repairs needed to your landlord or letting agent

• if possible, making sure your home is well ventilated (to help avoid condensation and damp)

• carrying out minor maintenance (such as checking smoke alarms are working and changing light bulbs)

and then later:

Regular testing
Test your smoke alarms and carbon monoxide detectors regularly – at least once a month. It is your responsibility as the tenant to ensure that the fire alarm remains in working order.

Actually I can't believe this applies to hard-wired alarms that stop working, but changing a battery is like changing a lightbulb....

The NRLA here says:

1. Smoke and carbon monoxide alarms

The most common cause of death in fire related incidents in 2018-19 was due to being overcome by gas or smoke – working smoke alarms save lives. Landlords are required by law to have at least one working smoke alarm installed on every floor of their rental properties and a carbon monoxide alarm in any room containing a solid fuel burning appliance. Landlords must also make sure alarms are in working order at the start of each new tenancy and should encourage tenants to continue to check alarms on a monthly basis. It’s also a good idea to inspect smoke and carbon monoxide alarms when carrying out routine property inspections.

Funny enough with smoke alarm, gas safety check was done two weeks before checkout, so she was informed that alarm is not working, batteries were changed by us roughly every 6-8 months, but if my memory is correct, that smoke alarm is over 10 years old now 

[Deleted User]

propertyrental said:

[Deleted User] said:

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is smoke alarms are a legal requirement and responsibility of the landlord full stop. My reading of the reg is, if battery cannot be replaced (some alarms are now sealed units), you would need to inform them once aware it’s not working, and then they’re obliged to replace (and certainly not at your cost). 

Short of inspecting every month, or week, or day (think quiet enjoyment!) how can a LL ensure a fire/CO alarm remains in working order? Other than relying on the tenant to inform him?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/landlord-and-tenant-rights-and-responsibilities-in-the-private-rented-sector/landlord-and-tenant-rights-and-responsibilities-in-the-private-rented-sector

Says:

Look after the property
The law requires you to use the property in a “tenant-like” manner. This includes:

• reporting any repairs needed to your landlord or letting agent

• if possible, making sure your home is well ventilated (to help avoid condensation and damp)

• carrying out minor maintenance (such as checking smoke alarms are working and changing light bulbs)

and then later:

Regular testing
Test your smoke alarms and carbon monoxide detectors regularly – at least once a month. It is your responsibility as the tenant to ensure that the fire alarm remains in working order.

Actually I can't believe this applies to hard-wired alarms that stop working, but changing a battery is like changing a lightbulb....

The NRLA here says:

1. Smoke and carbon monoxide alarms

The most common cause of death in fire related incidents in 2018-19 was due to being overcome by gas or smoke – working smoke alarms save lives. Landlords are required by law to have at least one working smoke alarm installed on every floor of their rental properties and a carbon monoxide alarm in any room containing a solid fuel burning appliance. Landlords must also make sure alarms are in working order at the start of each new tenancy and should encourage tenants to continue to check alarms on a monthly basis. It’s also a good idea to inspect smoke and carbon monoxide alarms when carrying out routine property inspections.

Which is what I said. Where battery cannot be replaced, blah blah blah, tenant would inform LL alarm not in order. Where battery can be replaced but tenant chooses not to bother, that’s at their risk and dereliction of agreement; rabbit hole so I’ll stick to the point. 

What this LL is attempting is a charge of £98 for changing a battery in a smoke alarm. Post-tenancy. The former tenant is not liable for such nonsense. Perhaps, had it happened midway through the tenancy, it could be twisted to make the case. But there is no law I can see stating former tenants have to pay for someone they didn’t hire to trot up a ladder/stand on a chair, to change a smoke alarm battery in a rental property that they’re no longer living in. Complete bull.

[Deleted User]

OP, with the deposit being protected, there’s no way the smoke alarm thing will stand. Sounds like you’ve had a first time/make it up as they go along landlord.