WISE PARKING PCN - QE Hospital Drop Off Area

LM_Phoenix

Hi All,

My father received an ANPR Parking Charge Notice from Wise Parking for exceeding the permitted time at Queen Elizabeth Hospital (QEH) Drop Off Area.  I appealed the PCN using the Newbies guide and these very helpful threads:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6374344/unfair-behaviour-by-privately-operated-carpark-management-company/

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6370939/wise-parking-qe-hospital-drop-off-area-night-time-pcn/p2

Any further advice / suggestions would be much appreciated.

Summary

My father is 70, speaks and reads very limited English.  He is the primary carer for my mother, who suffers from mental health and other chronic health conditions.  

On 19th Dec 2022, my mother had a quarterly review at QEH.  After dropping my mother and I off at the hospital entrance, my father proceeded to the car park where he’d usually park and wait.  However on this occasion he had forgotten his wallet.  Under normal circumstances, my father would have returned home which is 1.4m from QEH, however he was concerned about my mother who suffered a fall the day prior and required assistance when walking.

In light of this and the fact it was a routine review that usually takes ~10/15min, my father circled back to the Drop Off area to pick up my mother and I.  Unfortunately the appointment took much longer than anticipated and my father was unaware of the changes to parking at QEH.

Actions Taken To Date

• Appealed PCN.  This was rejected by Wise Parking
• Complained to QEH Patient Advice and Liaison service (PALs)
• Appealed to IAS.  Notification of Appeal dismissal received 24.02.23

Grounds of Appeal

1. Extenuating circumstances
2. Inadequate Signage
3. T&Cs (no offer for motorists who are picking up)
4. Unfair / Disproportionate Charge

Planned Next Steps

• Complain to Ben Travis, CEO of L&G NHS Trust
• Complain to local MP
• FOI request to QEH (along the lines of @Coupon-mad suggestions via https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79409126/#Comment_79409126) 

Le_Kirk

Push yourcomplaint to PALS and ask why it hasn't been cancelled yet,.

LM_Phoenix

Le_Kirk said:

Push yourcomplaint to PALS and ask why it hasn't been cancelled yet,.

Will follow-up with PALS tomorrow.  Their initial reply simply relayed Wise's response below:

"The contract we have with CIS Security, who have the contract with the Trust does not incentivise the issuing of parking charges, and all revenues generated from parking is passed to the Trust. 

The 10 minute restriction for the Drop Off area, is not something we have introduced, but has been in place for many years. The only change has been that the ANPR cameras are able to spot infringements 24/7.

Anyone parking at the hospital should be able to read and agree to the contract created by the signage. The contract is created in English Law once someone parks and if the very clear signage we use cannot be comprehended, I do not see this is an issue for the Trust of for ourselves. The sign used is below.

I do not feel we can comment about the inability for a driver to be able to read signage on the car park area, or it seems on the road whilst driving. I am surprised if this is the case as it would not seem safe to allow someone to drive with this issue.

 The driver, as all other people should, would need to drop the patient off, go to one of the public car parks and pay the amount due to park. Causing the drop off area to not work as intended cannot be allowed for any users of the facilities, and is why we have been asked to manage the parking, and we do so in the way we do.

 The amount of the parking charge has been agreed with the Trust, and is lower than almost all nearby car parks that have controls in place. It may be felt it is disproportionate, but it is clearly stated on the signage that if parking here for longer than allowed, the driver agrees to pay that amount. Even being unable to read English, the ability to understand a large £80 should be clear to anyone."

Boat_to_Bolivia

As advised by @Le_Kirk you need to pursue this with PALS.

That response is a load of the proverbial. Ignore it and complain to PALS again and copy in the CEO of the NHS and your MP. 

Coupon-mad

Just ignore that drivel from whatsisname who thinks it's a real job to run the misnamed 'Wise' Parking.

Up the ante with the complaints.

IMHO that company need kicking out by the Trust and the more complaints and interest by local MPs the better.  Get your MP to ask the Trust why no "reasonable adjustments" of time are being allowed to support disabled patients who may often need their lift to be there longer than 10 minutes?  That's a breach of the Equality Act 2010.  A disabled person is allowed more time BY LAW and that drop off area is also for picking up, I seem to recall one sign we saw says?

LM_Phoenix

Thank you all.  

Below is the draft email (& accompanying detailed account) I intend to send to CEO NHS Trust, and an adapted version to MP.

I have incorporated @Coupon-mad point re: no "reasonable adjustments" of time, however does this contradict the point re: T&Cs (no offer for motorists who are picking up)?

Input would be greatly appreciated.

Email

Dear Mr Travis,

I am writing to bring to your attention a key issue with your parking enforcer, WISE parking. Their standards fail to be anywhere close to what we expect of your trust. The trust cares about patients and their families, WISE enjoys the opposite. This is detrimental to the patients, their carers, and the image of the trust. Your intervention is needed to address this.

Sadly, my elderly father, has been at the receiving end of such sub-standard treatment. WISE acted with complete disregard for his circumstances and failed to treat us with respect when I appealed on his behalf, causing us to pursie formal challenges, which wastes valuable time that we would rather spend looking after my very ill mother. I  hope you can intervene to right this wrong.

In the attached/below, I provide the details of the case. I am happy to meet up to discuss in detail. Also happy to work with someone in your team to help find a better path for all patients. 

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

Accompanying doc with detailed account

Reference: PCN XXXXXX 

Summary

My father was issued with a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on 22nd December 2022 for exceeding the permitted time at Queen Elizabeth Hospital (QEH) Drop Off Area.  

We believe it was unfairly issued.  We have complained to QEH Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS), in addition to submitting an appeal to Wise Parking and the Independent Adjudicator IAS.  

Disappointingly Wise Parking disregarded the points I raised (please refer to Grounds of Appeal below) and rejected our representation.  Their response has shown a lack of respect and compassion for an elderly carer, whom English is NOT their first language: 

"Anyone parking at the hospital should be able to read and agree to the contract created by the signage”…….

“…..Even being unable to read English, the ability to understand a large £80 should be clear to anyone.”

Given 44% of residents in the Royal borough of Greenwich are from the BAME community (source ONS, 2021 Census), I seriously challenge whether Wise Parking demonstrates or upholds L&G NHS Trust’s core values.

More importantly, why has L&G NHS Trust made no "reasonable adjustments" of time to allow carers/relatives to support disabled patients who may often require their lift to be there longer than 10 minutes?  A disabled person is allowed more time BY LAW.

This matter will be escalated to Matthew Pennycook, MP for Greenwich & Woolwich as the trust stands in breach of:

• the Equality Act 2010 
• the NHS Car Parking Guidance 2021 and
• the Consumer Rights Acts 2015 (CRA)

Grounds of Appeal

• Extenuating circumstances
• Inadequate Signage, T&Cs
• Unfair Charge

Extenuating Circumstances

(As described in my initial post under Summary)

Inadequate Signage

Signage at QEH Drop-Off Area is inadequate.  The new sign is placed high on a pole and cannot be easily read from a car’s length (roughly 4 - 5m).  It is not possible to read the small printed long text which sets out the terms and conditions.  One would need to stand right in front of it (with a stepladder and magnifying glass) for the T&Cs to be legible.  

T&Cs

The sign does NOT create any contractual terms about motorists who are picking up.  For a contract to be formed, three elements must be satisfied: Offer, consideration, and acceptance.

There are no Ts and Cs, (no offer) for a motorist who is picking up, therefore no consideration to a motorist who is picking up, therefore no contract can be formed with a motorist who is picking up.  It is trite law that if there is no contract, then there can be no breach of contract.

Signage must be prominent, plentiful, well placed and lit, and all terms unambiguous and obligations clear.  The CRA has been breached due to unclear terms and notices, pursuant to s62 and paying due regard to examples 6, 10, 14 & 18 of Schedule 2 and the requirements for fair dealing and good faith.

Disproportionate Charge

The amount charged is not based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to the company or the landowner. 

In this case, the £80 charge being asked for far exceeds the cost to the landowner QEH; an hour’s parking is £1.50 however my father’s car was on the premises for 30 minutes.  We therefore feel the amount Wise Parking has asked for is excessive, especially in the current Cost of Living Crisis. 

Le_Kirk

causing us to pursie pursue formal challenges,

If you haven't sent it, spotted one spelling error for you.

Coupon-mad

I would add a request NOT to just spout a reply written by Stuart Cole of Wise, which have been seen from this Trust before and completely miss the point that the NHS Trust is liable for the actions of rogue parking agents and can't just hand complaints to the perpetrator (the unsuitable agent).

I'd also ask how on earth this apparently unsuitable firm was handed a contract to 'run' parking at an NHS Trust, given they appear to have had no background and are a new company who are displaying no regard for the Equality Act 2010?

ConfusedNomad

@LM_Phoenix do you have an update on this? I'm currently dealing with the same issue so would be grateful for any pointers.