What counts as 'returning the keys'...

Mr.Generous

As a landlord I always email the tenant on the approach to the tenancy end and ask what they want to do. Keeps me in the picture.

propertyrental

If the LL had let themselves in (assuming they had keys) the day after the end of the fixed term, and the tenants had not moved out, there'd be a thread here about harassment / infringement of their right to quiet enjoyment etc, and the tenant would be here seeking clarification about how/whether periodic tenancies automatically arise after the fixed term.

Yet in this scenario, the only way the LL can determine whether the T has moved out, is by entering and finding the keys and abandoned property.

And even then LL cannot be sure they aren't on holiday..

Certainly I would have advised the Ts to post or deliver the keys to the appropriate address (for serving notices).

I take the point about there being no need to serve notice at the end of a tenancy, and km1500's point regarding ‘effluxion of time’, but wonder whether the Ts have actually vacated in this scenario. They've effectively retained the keys.

Granted, the passage of time (5 months) without rent is a bit of a give-away (!), but what if it were 1 month or so....?

Is there any case law anyone knows of?

km1500

any normal landlord would ask the tenants before the end of the 12  month term what their intentions were.

as for not noticing the rent hadn't been paid for 5 months....!

Schwarzwald

user1977 said:

So how does the landlord determine whether the tenant has vacated, without the usual "quiet enjoyment" concerns about letting themselves in etc?

Rent us typically due at the start of each rental month
so if after the say 12 month initial period the money doesnt come for the 13th month, i’d guess that is a strong enough hint to the LL that something has changed and that something potentially being the tenant has left the building

Alderbank

So the landlord visits the property a few days after the end of the fixed term, having had no communication from the tenant.
No-one there but some personal items which might or might not have been abandoned (opened food packets, dirty socks), are lying around.
Legally, did the tenancy end with the fixed term or has it rolled over?

The_Unready

Someone has already asked if there was a deposit and, if so, was it claimed back by the tenant?

That process, if it happened, would have given the landlord a clue.

housebuyer143

Posting keys through the letterbox of the house is always a dumb move. Had a handful of tenants do just this and there were no spares so a locksmith was called and they ended up paying for it.

Presumably they told the agent they left or at least they stopped paying rent, so assuming it was then noted they left the house empty and the keys were inside that should be indication enough to say they had finished the tenancy.

theartfullodger

user1977 said:

So how does the landlord determine whether the tenant has vacated, without the usual "quiet enjoyment" concerns about letting themselves in etc?

Landlord, having obviously done training in being a landlord & being aware tenant may leave BY end of tenancy without giving notice would have asked tenant, calmly & politely, what their plans were.  Plus gone and had a look . And if landlord had half-a-brain (sadly not a requirement for being a landlord) would have informed any neighbours of LL's email & 'phone number as the cheapest form of insurance. (Been valuable to me several times)

Another member posted """Posting keys through the letterbox of the house is always a dumb move. Had a handful of tenants do just this and there were no spares so a locksmith was called and they ended up paying for it. """  A landlord had no copy keys? IMHO an own goal.  Were I that tenant I'd be very happy to decline to pay and/or be taken to court in confident view LL would lose...

Artful: Landlord since 2000

silvercar

theartfullodger said:

user1977 said:

So how does the landlord determine whether the tenant has vacated, without the usual "quiet enjoyment" concerns about letting themselves in etc?

Landlord, having obviously done training in being a landlord & being aware tenant may leave BY end of tenancy without giving notice would have asked tenant, calmly & politely, what their plans were.  

....and what would you have done if you had had no reply? After all these are tenants who think that putting the keys through the letter box constitutes ending the tenancy. They may also be the tenants that don't reply to requests for information? After all, there is no legal obligation on tenants to give notice at the end of the fixed term, so maybe they just decline to communicate. You may say that is their right.

housebuyer143

theartfullodger said:

user1977 said:

So how does the landlord determine whether the tenant has vacated, without the usual "quiet enjoyment" concerns about letting themselves in etc?

Landlord, having obviously done training in being a landlord & being aware tenant may leave BY end of tenancy without giving notice would have asked tenant, calmly & politely, what their plans were.  Plus gone and had a look . And if landlord had half-a-brain (sadly not a requirement for being a landlord) would have informed any neighbours of LL's email & 'phone number as the cheapest form of insurance. (Been valuable to me several times)

Another member posted """Posting keys through the letterbox of the house is always a dumb move. Had a handful of tenants do just this and there were no spares so a locksmith was called and they ended up paying for it. """  A landlord had no copy keys? IMHO an own goal.  Were I that tenant I'd be very happy to decline to pay and/or be taken to court in confident view LL would lose...

Artful: Landlord since 2000

I worked at a large national estate agent *cough* Connells *cough* and they routinely lost and misplaced keys, and then landlords kept no spares themselves. Stupid all round imo.