Carflow PCN - Debt collector stage

Coupon-mad

They aren't lawyers. Don't take them too seriously.

That's GCTT, a trading name connected to ZZPS (a 'parking debt' collector waste of space firm run by people whose previous debt firm, Roxburghe, was banned from having a licence by the OFT a few years back because they were "misleading consumers" and were "unfit").

That's what some here might describe as the level of "scum" you are dealing with.

As long as the communication comes from the keeper, your planned next step seems fine. I did say to transfer liability asap.  The driver cannot do that.  The keeper must.

If she gets a letter from QDR solicitors (again not to be taken too seriously, IMHO) she must also respond to them reiterating that she has already supplied the name and address of the driver and under the POFA 2012, this "transfer of liability" can be effected at any time prior to court proceedings, so she expects to hear no more.

Umkomaas

You might also complain to the BPA (use the complaints portal on the BPA website) and ask them to investigate. Carflow head honcho - Conor Greely - is a BPA Board member. 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/YRO-M4nQWdkbMI0kGT8Pz9KOWEA/appointments

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/board

fivestarsamz

Coupon-mad said:

They aren't lawyers. Don't take them too seriously.

That's GCTT, a trading name connected to ZZPS (a 'parking debt' collector waste of space firm run by people whose previous debt firm, Roxburghe, was banned from having a licence by the OFT a few years back because they were "misleading consumers" and were "unfit").

That's what some here might describe as the level of "scum" you are dealing with.

As long as the communication comes from the keeper, your planned next step seems fine. I did say to transfer liability asap.  The driver cannot do that.  The keeper must.

If she gets a letter from QDR solicitors (again not to be taken too seriously, IMHO) she must also respond to them reiterating that she has already supplied the name and address of the driver and under the POFA 2012, this "transfer of liability" can be effected at any time prior to court proceedings, so she expects to hear no more.

So the RK did transfer liability to the driver as soon as you told me, which is what they were waiting for the reply for. 

They only just received the reply today stating this:

Dear XXXX(RK),

Thank you for getting in touch with Carflow.

Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 states:

“4 (1) The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid charges from the keeper of the vehicle.
     (2) The right under this paragraph applies only if -
(a) the conditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met; and
(b) the vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.

[…\

5 (1) the first condition is that the creditor -
(a) has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but
(b) is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know the name of the driver and a current      address for service for the driver.

  (2) Sub paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper."

As we did not receive the name and address of the driver within the relevant 28 day period, and we have now begun proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charge it is no longer possible to transfer liability.

This parking charge remains outstanding.

Kind Regards,

Carflow Team

Sooooooo what now? I can't transfer liability?

Umkomaas

fivestarsamz said:

Coupon-mad said:

They aren't lawyers. Don't take them too seriously.

That's GCTT, a trading name connected to ZZPS (a 'parking debt' collector waste of space firm run by people whose previous debt firm, Roxburghe, was banned from having a licence by the OFT a few years back because they were "misleading consumers" and were "unfit").

That's what some here might describe as the level of "scum" you are dealing with.

As long as the communication comes from the keeper, your planned next step seems fine. I did say to transfer liability asap.  The driver cannot do that.  The keeper must.

If she gets a letter from QDR solicitors (again not to be taken too seriously, IMHO) she must also respond to them reiterating that she has already supplied the name and address of the driver and under the POFA 2012, this "transfer of liability" can be effected at any time prior to court proceedings, so she expects to hear no more.

So the RK did transfer liability to the driver as soon as you told me, which is what they were waiting for the reply for. 

They only just received the reply today stating this:

Dear XXXX(RK),

Thank you for getting in touch with Carflow.

Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 states:

“4 (1) The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid charges from the keeper of the vehicle.
     (2) The right under this paragraph applies only if -
(a) the conditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met; and
(b) the vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.

[…\

5 (1) the first condition is that the creditor -
(a) has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but
(b) is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know the name of the driver and a current      address for service for the driver.

  (2) Sub paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper."

As we did not receive the name and address of the driver within the relevant 28 day period, and we have now begun proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charge it is no longer possible to transfer liability.

This parking charge remains outstanding.

Kind Regards,

Carflow Team

Sooooooo what now? I can't transfer liability?

Refer them back to this. The BPA paid for legal advice on this and its states quite the opposite to what they state is their position. How can CG sit at Director level at the BPA, presumably involved in the decision making for the commissioning of the work and thereafter signing it off (with all its implications). He can't have his cake and eat it!

http://portfolio.cpl.co.uk/Parking-News/395/26/

Coupon-mad

Dear Carflow,

Stop misleading the keeper about liability.

Stop sending letters to the keeper.

The 28 days is in your cloud cuckoo land imagination and not in the law you quoted.  You have not 'begun proceedings' so you must now revert to the known driver and send them a Parking Charge Notice.

I am aware that your top banana sits at Director level at the BPA, presumably involved in decision-making and will be well aware of this published article commissioned by the BPA:

http://portfolio.cpl.co.uk/Parking-News/395/26/

Might be worth you reading that.  If you still struggle to understand it, I suggest you should seek legal advice.  I hear that your mate Derek Millard-Smith at your 'Law Line' agrees with that article so it is odd that Carflow pretend otherwise.

Carflow also stands in breach of the BPA CoP which states that once you know who was driving you must not pursue the keeper. Obviously.  Because that's the law,  I suggest you get your house in order in readiness for the new statutory Code of Practice or you could be in danger of it wiping your firm out due to complaints.

yours faithfully,

Boat_to_Bolivia

Nice one CM..

fivestarsamz

Coupon-mad said:

Dear Carflow,

Stop misleading the keeper about liability.

Stop sending letters to the keeper.

The 28 days is in your cloud cuckoo land imagination and not in the law you quoted.  You have not 'begun proceedings' so you must now revert to the known driver and send them a Parking Charge Notice.

I am aware that your top banana sits at Director level at the BPA, presumably involved in decision-making and will be well aware of this published article commissioned by the BPA: http://portfolio.cpl.co.uk/Parking-News/395/26/

Might be worth you reading it, if not I suggest you seek legal advice.  I hear that your mate Derek Millard-Smith at your 'Lawline' agrees with that article.

Carflow also stands in breach of the BPA CoP which states that once you know who was driving you must not pursue the keeper. Obviously.

yours faithfully,

I am laughing at your colourful wordings Is it seriously okay to reply with them with this?

I will add in this at the end and attach the PDF attachment:

"I have also attached a PDF letter from the driver confirming that they were indeed the driver. Transfer liability IMMEDIATELY."

Coupon-mad

I've edited it a bit but of course that reply is OK. 

Umkomaas

Is it seriously okay to reply with them with this?

Why not, they can't do anything about it. They are trying to extract money from you when they have no right to it, and you've provided the evidence as to why. 

fisherjim

They are a two bit parking company that are lying to you for greed, they need putting in their lowly place why would you be civil to them.