Carflow PCN - Debt collector stage

fivestarsamz

Hello, my lovely people. I have come here once again to seek your beautiful assistance. I will try to keep it as short as I can but there is a lot to put in so I apologise. This is for my friend.

Driver goes shopping and parks her car in Broadway Surface Car Park, The Broadway, Crawley. They pay the parking ticket of £1.40 using the parking meter in the 'pay and display' car park. Driver tries to put in VRM but the ticket gets printed after only putting the first letter of the VRM in which is 'C'. (Please see picture below) Doesn't think it would be an issue, displays it on her windscreen, and does her shopping. 

Picture of the paid parking ticket:




The RK then receives a PCN fine from Carflow with a picture of the car, at the entrance. entering and leaving the car park at the correct times, saying that no amount was paid. So now the driver appealed (see images) this when the RK received the first letter through carflows email, sending them proof of the pay and display ticket. Sometime later, Carflow sent another letter of the fine to the RK, and the driver appealed again through carflows website. None of the appeals was responded to (maybe lost in the spam folder?). The RK then received a "Notice of pending legal action" letter asking to pay £120. The letter mentions that the time period for POPLA appeal is expired.

PS: Yes they messed up by identifying the driver (only by name though). But they're still chasing the RK for the fine... not the driver. 

PS: I have pictures of the signs at the car park if that helps at all.

First letter of the PCN front: 


Reverse: 


Notice of PENDING LEGAL ACTION: 


Appeal sent:
 


A complaint was made to BPA for no POPLA code and other issues including unclear ANPR signs, Keying errors, and the lack of a reply of the appeal. Here is a link to the PDF file of the complaint sent: https://www.docfly.com/editor/63ce60447cef45e9a244/rz7xp97fa1j-4d64ece4

BPA were not interested. (I will try to fish out the reply if it matters) And the matter has been dormant until today. 

Today the RK (not the driver) received a letter from a debt collector company:



The issue is the RK suffers from anxiety issues and would definitely not want to face any bailiffs showing up at her door. She would rather pay it than risk that from happening. 

So what do you guys think should be done? Let me know your thoughts.

B789

@fivestarsamz you can safely ignore any letters from ZZPS and any of their ilk. They are just debt recovery firms that offer a no-win no-fee service to their equally bottom-dwelling client parking companies and add on an illegal c£70 which would not be allowed if it ever got to court.

There is 100% no way that any bailiffs will show up at her door. Their letters are designed to instil fear in the hope that their victims will poop their pants at the mere suggestion of "bailiffs" even though there is absolutely no way bailiffs could be involved unless they had lost a case against them in court and not paid a CCJ in time and even then, there are minimum amounts before bailiffs can become involved and they need court orders before they can act..

You really are dealing with companies who are as pleasant as something you've trodden in left by a dog. However, they are powerless to actually do anything whatsoever.

Whilst the PCN appears to be POFA compliant, there is an error in the wording where they state "29 days" instead of the POFA required "28 days". However, if it ever came to court, some judges may disregard that "minor keying error" 

What you have here is either a major keying error or more likely a faulty PTD machine. Either way, this case is defendable and you will get better advice soon from the forum experts.

If you are doing this on behalf of your friend, everything has to be in their name and they should be following what you do and the advice given here as, if it ever came to a county court hearing, they would have to attend and so need to understand the process fully. What you can tell your find is that of all the cases on here that get a claim, 99% of them are won or discontinued before a hearing. The 1% that fail are usually because the advice was not followed, the Newbies thread was not read, re-read, digested and understood or they just gave in to the scammers.

Are you a 99 percenter or a 1 percenter?

1505grandad

Just thinking out loud  -  RCP Parking Ltd (another BPA AOS member but a totally different entity) have issued ticket for fee paid.

fivestarsamz

B789 said:

@fivestarsamz you can safely ignore any letters from ZZPS and any of their ilk. They are just debt recovery firms that offer a no-win no-fee service to their equally bottom-dwelling client parking companies and add on an illegal c£70 which would not be allowed if it ever got to court.

There is 100% no way that any bailiffs will show up at her door. Their letters are designed to instil fear in the hope that their victims will poop their pants at the mere suggestion of "bailiffs" even though there is absolutely no way bailiffs could be involved unless they had lost a case against them in court and not paid a CCJ in time and even then, there are minimum amounts before bailiffs can become involved and they need court orders before they can act..

You really are dealing with companies who are as pleasant as something you've trodden in left by a dog. However, they are powerless to actually do anything whatsoever.

Whilst the PCN appears to be POFA compliant, there is an error in the wording where they state "29 days" instead of the POFA required "28 days". However, if it ever came to court, some judges may disregard that "minor keying error" 

What you have here is either a major keying error or more likely a faulty PTD machine. Either way, this case is defendable and you will get better advice soon from the forum experts.

If you are doing this on behalf of your friend, everything has to be in their name and they should be following what you do and the advice given here as, if it ever came to a county court hearing, they would have to attend and so need to understand the process fully. What you can tell your find is that of all the cases on here that get a claim, 99% of them are won or discontinued before a hearing. The 1% that fail are usually because the advice was not followed, the Newbies thread was not read, re-read, digested and understood or they just gave in to the scammers.

Are you a 99 percenter or a 1 percenter?

Okay thank you for that. Hopefully I am a 99 percenter. There have been a few PCN that I had dismissed with the help of amazing member on this forum. But none of them went passed the POPLA stage. It sucks that I couldn't even go to POPLA for this one. 

With regards to having to attend the court hearing, surely they should be going after the driver now and not the RK since the driver was identified (albeit just by name). 

1505grandad said:

Just thinking out loud  -  RCP Parking Ltd (another BPA AOS member but a totally different entity) have issued ticket for fee paid.

Yes but it seems as though this car park is managed by both of them. 

Here are the pictures from the car park:

KeithP

Your DocFly file doesn't exist...

The file you selected has been deleted as it was created over 24 hours ago. Please purchase a subscription to store your files on DocFly.

Perhaps use Dropbox instead.

Coupon-mad

Keeper should name the driver to Carflow now and give their postal address and state that she has transferred liability and expects to hear no more, especially as Carflow already had an appeal from that driver (attached) and so they know this information is true.

Then the driver defends if it goes to court.  Did the driver pay at the wrong machine (wrong company)?

Show us the BPA complaint response.

fivestarsamz

KeithP said:

Your DocFly file doesn't exist...

The file you selected has been deleted as it was created over 24 hours ago. Please purchase a subscription to store your files on DocFly.

Perhaps use Dropbox instead.

Here is a google drive link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17Xlv7DJDkpKFEP9AK6VCWxyKF0AZHNeR/view?usp=share_link

if this doesn't work, ill make a dropbox account and do it. 

Coupon-mad said:

Keeper should name the driver to Carflow now and give their postal address and state that she has transferred liability and expects to hear no more, especially as Carflow already had an appeal from that driver (attached) and so they know this information is true.

Then the driver defends if it goes to court.  Did the driver pay at the wrong machine (wrong company)?

Show us the BPA complaint response.

Okay, so if i transfer liability to driver, will it start from the beginning at £60 fine/invoice or will they still try for £170 from the driver? (driver and RK live at the same address)

No, the driver paid at the correct machine. As they were putting in their VRM, they inserted the first letter 'C' and the machine printed the parking ticket without letting her put in the complete VRM.  The car park is managed by RCP but enforced by Carflow as it says on the sign (last bullet point): "Carflow Limited manages parking enforcement at this car park on behalf of RCP parking limited."





Here is the BPA response: 

B789

Utter male bovine excrement from the BPA... not surprising though.

"It has also been advised that it is not possible for the payment machine to print a ticket after only entering one letter..."

Yet you have proof that it IS possible as you are the holder of a ticket showing just 1 character.

Precisely why this a scam. If the entered VRM has been noted by their ANPR, then it should be possible to make payment. If the entered VRM has NOT been noted by their ANPR then it should not be possible to make payment for a VRM that has not entered their car park.

The above reasoning should be made fully clear to your MP and for his to highlight this scam which is so easily avoidable as it wastes so much court time and is programmed to prey on victims who are gullible and just pay up for the sake of an easy life. Fools and their money eh?

patient_dream

B789 said:

Utter male bovine excrement from the BPA... not surprising though.

"It has also been advised that it is not possible for the payment machine to print a ticket after only entering one letter..."

Yet you have proof that it IS possible as you are the holder of a ticket showing just 1 character.

Precisely why this a scam. If the entered VRM has been noted by their ANPR, then it should be possible to make payment. If the entered VRM has NOT been noted by their ANPR then it should not be possible to make payment for a VRM that has not entered their car park.

The above reasoning should be made fully clear to your MP and for his to highlight this scam which is so easily avoidable as it wastes so much court time and is programmed to prey on victims who are gullible and just pay up for the sake of an easy life. Fools and their money eh?

You are so right ..... this letter from Laura of the BPA just proves once again that the BPA are not fit for purpose and only interested in protecting their wild bunch of money scammers

Laura says the signs are compliant ......  what the F ... has that to do with a proven paid ticket ?   

And she says that the PPC says that no tickets are printed because it's not possible by only entering 1 number.
Proving once again that the BPA support money scammers, how did the OP actually get a printed ticket ? which we see above.

Laura should be sacked or resign for such rubbish

Then there is the ZZPS utter crap, known as the OSNER scam, a BPA board member ?  ANOTHER BPA MONEY SCAMMER

For my part in the well overdue consultation, the BPA will be listed as a "not fit for purpose" organisation .... HOW CAN THEY BE when Laura spouts so much utter rubbish

Coupon-mad

Read this, similar cases are won by defendants if they try a small claim:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/10/peel-centre-machine-failure-transcript.html

Name the driver (with postal address even though it is the same, you MUST give their address) and see if they re-issue the PCN to him.  If they just send the named driver a Letter before Claim, they can respond robustly pointing out that these cases have been tested in court before - always lost by parking operators - and the evidence (ticket attached) shows that this machine is perfectly capable of printing a ticket with a single digit on it so misleading information appears to have come from the BPA complaint.

fivestarsamz

Coupon-mad said:

Read this, similar cases are won by defendants if they try a small claim:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/10/peel-centre-machine-failure-transcript.html

Name the driver (with postal address even though it is the same, you MUST give their address) and see if they re-issue the PCN to him.  If they just send the named driver a Letter before Claim, they can respond robustly pointing out that these cases have been tested in court before - always lost by parking operators - and the evidence (ticket attached) shows that this machine is perfectly capable of printing a ticket with a single digit on it so misleading information appears to have come from the BPA complaint.

Okay, so a little update... for some weird reason the RK does not seem to be receiving any emails from carflow, other than the auto-response that an email has been received when she sends them an email. They check their junk emails every now and then too to see if it is sitting in there but nothing. They even did a DSAR a few months ago but did not get anything. 

They sent an email to transfer liability to the driver but got nothing back from them. Instead they (RK) got this from another lawyer company: 



"Or by providing evidence why you are not liable for this debt."

How does the RK PROVE that she was not the driver?  I am thinking of getting the driver to write up a letter admitting that she was the driver during the incident and having the RK send it to carflow and this lawyer company.