Probate toe-curling story of delay

ElmoR

Hi all,

I've been reading the various "How long does probate take" and "what should I do about slow solicitors" type posts over the past 6 months or so. They've been comforting to know you are not alone in this process.

My journey through this process took a rubbish turn last week...I had been to see the solicitor in October 2022. Dad had passed away in September. Dad hadn't sorted out Mum's probate in 2013, so there were a few complications that made me shy away from trying to do the entire process of probate myself. This was the right course for me. I did however gather up all the financial details and supplied a spreadsheet to the solicitor, so part of the work was done and the indicative solicitor cost reflected that. They simply needed to fill in the relevant probate forms and post them away. Which is what was agreed in October. Papers, their contract with me to that effect, arrived in November, which I signed and returned.

I naively thought that they had complete all the forms and posted them off at that point. I wrote an email in the first week of January asking about any progress (email was a method of contact in the contract) and I knew it might cost me to get that reply, but wanted to hear something. No one replied. I ended up with covid and had/am having a long, slow recovery, so stopped thinking about it. I then sent a second email a couple of weeks ago. No reply. Last week was the 12 week point at which I thought the probate office might have reached. I had visions of a reply soon...

Last weekend (avert your eyes if you are sensitive...), I had an envelope from the solicitor containing the probate application forms for me to sign. They had done NOTHING since October/November?! I actually felt nauseous. We have a house to sell and it sits empty 400 miles away from where I live. I check on it every so often and a kind neighbour looks in regularly, but this isn't something you want to drag out, it's a worry. I emailed the solicitor back and mentioned their lack of activity for so long and the fact that I had assumed they'd signed as my rep and the papers had been submitted...in November last year. It explained that this was a huge, disappointing and frustrating blow. They replied to say that someone had left the company and the delays were unfortunate. The signed papers were submitted the next day to the probate office when I dropped them off in person at the solicitors office. So the clock starts ticking now, in mid February and not November last year...16 weeks waiting time now (rather than the 8-12 weeks they advertised last year).

My question to you all...do you think I have a case for a significant reduction on the solicitor's bill when it comes time to pay? How should I go about it?

Also, please send comforting words and a lorry-load more patience.

I am trying to find any positives We have a likely 16 weeks plus now to do something with...The house still needs emptying (done quite a lot already but the large furniture remains), so we could do that ourselves rather than paying a house clearance company, but it involves that long 400 mile trip there and back plus a hotel stay (the cooker is disconnected and I gave the fridge/freezer to a charity so the place is not really habitable). So need to cost that up against hiring someone. The garden is in good shape and being looked after (at another cost...). Could start marketing it for sale once the place is empty...it's in a real state inside in decorative terms but the advice seems to be to go for the 'honest/warts and all' sale.

ElmoR x

SusieT

Not good service at all. Why did they not apply online? It is a lot faster than paper applications, and from the last lot of statistice I looked at its on average around 9-10 weeks faster than paper applications. If you look at the other probate timeframe posts, it seems that if all is straightforwards they can approve them in 2-3 weeks

Pennylane

That is dreadful!   I had poor and very expensive service from a  solicitor whose website assured me he had years of service with that practice in probate etc. I did complain to him and he did deduct an amount off the final bill but when I paid the bill I told him I was disappointed in his service and would not recommend him to others.  He did not reply! 🤣🤣

Personally I would go and clear the house myself and then I could be confident nothing of sentimental value or family history was lost.  It may mean a B and B stay for a week but prices are not too expensive at the moment.  You may find it emotionally draining too so will be glad of some good night’s rest.  

CaptainWales

That is exceptionally poor service - complain to the Solicitors Regulation Authority as I suspect if they have done this to you, then have also treated other clients this way. 

If it helps, I applied in November (when probate office said that it would take 8 weeks) and I am still waiting. Meanwhile the estate can't access any of the money sat in the accounts so I (as the executor) am having to put the bills which need paying now (home insurance, amounts owing for fixing the boiler before he died) on my credit card and another beneficiary has had to take a loan out to cover the bills. Meanwhile, those in the ivory tower that is the probate office, drag their feet with even looking at the application. It's been a horrendous few months and unlikely to get any better. I've made a complaint, but other than that I have no idea what to do.   

user1977

CaptainWales said:

That is exceptionally poor service - complain to the Solicitors Regulation Authority

No, you go through the firm's own complaints procedure first - the SRA will just bounce you back to them if you haven't already done that.

Savvy_Sue

If you've been unwell with Covid, I'd vote for professional clearance. Yes you could DIY, but you'll exhaust yourself. Plus, you'll need to check HOW you can dispose of large furniture. At our tip we have to make an appointment AND prove we are local residents. 

oglop

I'm sorry, OP. I'm in a similar situation to you and CaptainWales. It's been the most stressful situation of my life, without a doubt. 

I don't really have any advice but just wanted to say I know how stressful it all is. I hope it all gets sorted and doesn't take too long

Pennylane

I do feel sympathy for you guys who are waiting weeks or months for probate to be granted and the service is not good.  However, you do know it will go through at some point unlike the many people (myself included) who had to wait years (2 in my case but many are a lot longer) because somebody has put a Caveat on the application and you are well and truly stuck then.  They can then keep renewing the Caveat every 6 months if they so choose.

It’s  often a vindictive or jealous person who puts a Caveat on and it costs them just £3 (where does that figure come from and what can you get for £3 these days?) to do this and they don’t even have to say why they are doing this.  It is a very outdated and unfair system that allows this and should be reviewed urgently. 

The stress is dreadful and all consuming, the solicitors fees are shocking and your life is completely on hold while you try and reason with people who are hellbent on wrecking your life while you are still grieving the deceased family member.

oglop

CaptainWales said:

That is exceptionally poor service - complain to the Solicitors Regulation Authority as I suspect if they have done this to you, then have also treated other clients this way. 

If it helps, I applied in November (when probate office said that it would take 8 weeks) and I am still waiting. Meanwhile the estate can't access any of the money sat in the accounts so I (as the executor) am having to put the bills which need paying now (home insurance, amounts owing for fixing the boiler before he died) on my credit card and another beneficiary has had to take a loan out to cover the bills. Meanwhile, those in the ivory tower that is the probate office, drag their feet with even looking at the application. It's been a horrendous few months and unlikely to get any better. I've made a complaint, but other than that I have no idea what to do.   

Talking of the probate office, I just got an email from my solicitor, who had previously put in a complaint as it was taking so long, who said the probate office won't even register the complaint as it's "only been 15 weeks since it has been scanned"- despite the fact it took them 16 weeks to even scan it!! I can't even file a complaint despite it taking 30-odd weeks so far?!

Basically, it's going to take longer than the 16 weeks they said it would take to process, and I'm stuck without any way to escalate my probate case. It's absolutely insane.

This is the 5th delay now...it has gone from originally taking 8 weeks to four times longer at 32 weeks. And that's just so far. Digital applications are only taking 3 weeks from start to finish, so what the hell is going on? 

Argh rant over. 

uknick

Pennylane said:

I do feel sympathy for you guys who are waiting weeks or months for probate to be granted and the service is not good.  However, you do know it will go through at some point unlike the many people (myself included) who had to wait years (2 in my case but many are a lot longer) because somebody has put a Caveat on the application and you are well and truly stuck then.  They can then keep renewing the Caveat every 6 months if they so choose.

It’s  often a vindictive or jealous person who puts a Caveat on and it costs them just £3 (where does that figure come from and what can you get for £3 these days?) to do this and they don’t even have to say why they are doing this.  It is a very outdated and unfair system that allows this and should be reviewed urgently. 

The stress is dreadful and all consuming, the solicitors fees are shocking and your life is completely on hold while you try and reason with people who are hellbent on wrecking your life while you are still grieving the deceased family member.

You challenge a caveat by giving the caveat submitter a warning forcing them to make an appearance.  If they make the appearance the probate office then decide if they have a valid case, e.g. the will is invalid or they have a legitimate claim on the estate.  You will no doubt incur costs, both legal and administrative, and significant delays trying to remove the caveat, but it shouldn't go on for ever.    

I can't see how a person can maintain the delay if it's just for the reasons you state.

Pennylane

uknick said:

Pennylane said:

I do feel sympathy for you guys who are waiting weeks or months for probate to be granted and the service is not good.  However, you do know it will go through at some point unlike the many people (myself included) who had to wait years (2 in my case but many are a lot longer) because somebody has put a Caveat on the application and you are well and truly stuck then.  They can then keep renewing the Caveat every 6 months if they so choose.

It’s  often a vindictive or jealous person who puts a Caveat on and it costs them just £3 (where does that figure come from and what can you get for £3 these days?) to do this and they don’t even have to say why they are doing this.  It is a very outdated and unfair system that allows this and should be reviewed urgently. 

The stress is dreadful and all consuming, the solicitors fees are shocking and your life is completely on hold while you try and reason with people who are hellbent on wrecking your life while you are still grieving the deceased family member.

You challenge a caveat by giving the caveat submitter a warning forcing them to make an appearance.  If they make the appearance the probate office then decide if they have a valid case, e.g. the will is invalid or they have a legitimate claim on the estate.  You will no doubt incur costs, both legal and administrative, and significant delays trying to remove the caveat, but it shouldn't go on for ever.    

I can't see how a person can maintain the delay if it's just for the reasons you state.

The advice from the Probate Office and most legal organisations is to try and sort it between you and the Caveator.  When you are up against a vindictive person who does not reply to your letters and the weeks turn into months then you are almost at the 6 month mark so you hope they may not renew the caveat.  But they do renew it so you do a rethink and start worrying about going down the legal route and all the expenses involved. 

Sounds like you have been reading up on this but not actually involved, but I have and have met people who are no further forward and £15K out of  pocket after several years of trying to get caveats removed.  

Can you explain what you mean in your final sentence please?