Probate toe-curling story of delay

retroman62

user1977 said:

CaptainWales said:

That is exceptionally poor service - complain to the Solicitors Regulation Authority

Good luck with that - the SRA are not known for being a robust regulator. it's almost akin to marking your own homework. 

uknick

Pennylane said:

uknick said:

Pennylane said:

I do feel sympathy for you guys who are waiting weeks or months for probate to be granted and the service is not good.  However, you do know it will go through at some point unlike the many people (myself included) who had to wait years (2 in my case but many are a lot longer) because somebody has put a Caveat on the application and you are well and truly stuck then.  They can then keep renewing the Caveat every 6 months if they so choose.

It’s  often a vindictive or jealous person who puts a Caveat on and it costs them just £3 (where does that figure come from and what can you get for £3 these days?) to do this and they don’t even have to say why they are doing this.  It is a very outdated and unfair system that allows this and should be reviewed urgently. 

The stress is dreadful and all consuming, the solicitors fees are shocking and your life is completely on hold while you try and reason with people who are hellbent on wrecking your life while you are still grieving the deceased family member.

You challenge a caveat by giving the caveat submitter a warning forcing them to make an appearance.  If they make the appearance the probate office then decide if they have a valid case, e.g. the will is invalid or they have a legitimate claim on the estate.  You will no doubt incur costs, both legal and administrative, and significant delays trying to remove the caveat, but it shouldn't go on for ever.    

I can't see how a person can maintain the delay if it's just for the reasons you state.

The advice from the Probate Office and most legal organisations is to try and sort it between you and the Caveator.  When you are up against a vindictive person who does not reply to your letters and the weeks turn into months then you are almost at the 6 month mark so you hope they may not renew the caveat.  But they do renew it so you do a rethink and start worrying about going down the legal route and all the expenses involved. 

Sounds like you have been reading up on this but not actually involved, but I have and have met people who are no further forward and £15K out of  pocket after several years of trying to get caveats removed.  

Can you explain what you mean in your final sentence please? 

You're not quite right. I read up on the procedure, discussed it with a solicitor and then used it.

The day after my parent's death I was told by the will's executor, my sibling, I'd been left out of the will.  

This was the first time I'd heard of this.  For over 50 years I'd been told the estate was to be split equally between the surviving children.  As I had, or so I thought, a pretty good relationship with my parent (including being their sole carer for nearly 5 years at one time), I'm sure you can imagine my shock at the news.

Therefore, I placed a caveat on the probate after taking advice.

After a couple of months I did reach an agreement with the executor as to what I would receive from the estate and removed the caveat.  Luckily, this didn't involve too much cost as I initially had legal cover with my house insurance and they explained the basics of the caveat process.

I then paid for a couple of hours solicitor time to agree/adjust my wording of the agreement.  I now wait for the probate to come through to see if the agreement is honoured.  I'm not holding my breath it will be honoured and fully expect to use a solicitor again.

With regard to my last sentence, if you asked for, and they did make, an appearance I can't see how the Probate Service would consider purely malicious or vindicative motives as a sound reason to continue with the caveat for the length of time you've indicated.

Finally, I'm not trying to make light of what is always a bad situation when there is a contentious probate.  Whilst I'm approaching this from the opposite direction to you, I'm the challenger, I'm fully aware it can get very expensive if you use solicitors for all the stages of the process. My solicitor said about £10k at least to contest a will.  But, there are some parts of the process you can do for yourself with only minimal legal support, such as asking for an appearance. 

Pennylane

uknick said:

Pennylane said:

uknick said:

Pennylane said:

I do feel sympathy for you guys who are waiting weeks or months for probate to be granted and the service is not good.  However, you do know it will go through at some point unlike the many people (myself included) who had to wait years (2 in my case but many are a lot longer) because somebody has put a Caveat on the application and you are well and truly stuck then.  They can then keep renewing the Caveat every 6 months if they so choose.

It’s  often a vindictive or jealous person who puts a Caveat on and it costs them just £3 (where does that figure come from and what can you get for £3 these days?) to do this and they don’t even have to say why they are doing this.  It is a very outdated and unfair system that allows this and should be reviewed urgently. 

The stress is dreadful and all consuming, the solicitors fees are shocking and your life is completely on hold while you try and reason with people who are hellbent on wrecking your life while you are still grieving the deceased family member.

You challenge a caveat by giving the caveat submitter a warning forcing them to make an appearance.  If they make the appearance the probate office then decide if they have a valid case, e.g. the will is invalid or they have a legitimate claim on the estate.  You will no doubt incur costs, both legal and administrative, and significant delays trying to remove the caveat, but it shouldn't go on for ever.    

I can't see how a person can maintain the delay if it's just for the reasons you state.

The advice from the Probate Office and most legal organisations is to try and sort it between you and the Caveator.  When you are up against a vindictive person who does not reply to your letters and the weeks turn into months then you are almost at the 6 month mark so you hope they may not renew the caveat.  But they do renew it so you do a rethink and start worrying about going down the legal route and all the expenses involved. 

Sounds like you have been reading up on this but not actually involved, but I have and have met people who are no further forward and £15K out of  pocket after several years of trying to get caveats removed.  

Can you explain what you mean in your final sentence please? 

You're not quite right. I read up on the procedure, discussed it with a solicitor and then used it.

The day after my parent's death I was told by the will's executor, my sibling, I'd been left out of the will.  

This was the first time I'd heard of this.  For over 50 years I'd been told the estate was to be split equally between the surviving children.  As I had, or so I thought, a pretty good relationship with my parent (including being their sole carer for nearly 5 years at one time), I'm sure you can imagine my shock at the news.

Therefore, I placed a caveat on the probate after taking advice.

After a couple of months I did reach an agreement with the executor as to what I would receive from the estate and removed the caveat.  Luckily, this didn't involve too much cost as I initially had legal cover with my house insurance and they explained the basics of the caveat process.

I then paid for a couple of hours solicitor time to agree/adjust my wording of the agreement.  I now wait for the probate to come through to see if the agreement is honoured.  I'm not holding my breath it will be honoured and fully expect to use a solicitor again.

With regard to my last sentence, if you asked for, and they did make, an appearance I can't see how the Probate Service would consider purely malicious or vindicative motives as a sound reason to continue with the caveat for the length of time you've indicated.

Finally, I'm not trying to make light of what is always a bad situation when there is a contentious probate.  Whilst I'm approaching this from the opposite direction to you, I'm the challenger, I'm fully aware it can get very expensive if you use solicitors for all the stages of the process. My solicitor said about £10k at least to contest a will.  But, there are some parts of the process you can do for yourself with only minimal legal support, such as asking for an appearance. 

If you (as the Caveator) have removed the caveat then the Probate Office will go ahead and approve the application since you have an agreement.  It sounds like you were prepared to discuss things with your brother so things moved on quickly. 

I provided everything the Caveator would need and in a timely manner and they always knew that they would get their fair share of the Will.  They then started asking for things they already had just to delay the process.  I did as much as I could myself without using a Solicitor. In the end we did issue a Warning and the Probate Office emailed 7 months later to say the Grant had been approved with no explanation at all.  I was told the Caveator had to issue a statement to the Registry which they would consider and get back to me if they needed to hear my side of things. They never did, so  I can only assume they were not fooled by a pack of lies and went ahead and approved my application.

uknick

Pennylane said:

uknick said:

Pennylane said:

uknick said:

Pennylane said:

I do feel sympathy for you guys who are waiting weeks or months for probate to be granted and the service is not good.  However, you do know it will go through at some point unlike the many people (myself included) who had to wait years (2 in my case but many are a lot longer) because somebody has put a Caveat on the application and you are well and truly stuck then.  They can then keep renewing the Caveat every 6 months if they so choose.

It’s  often a vindictive or jealous person who puts a Caveat on and it costs them just £3 (where does that figure come from and what can you get for £3 these days?) to do this and they don’t even have to say why they are doing this.  It is a very outdated and unfair system that allows this and should be reviewed urgently. 

The stress is dreadful and all consuming, the solicitors fees are shocking and your life is completely on hold while you try and reason with people who are hellbent on wrecking your life while you are still grieving the deceased family member.

You challenge a caveat by giving the caveat submitter a warning forcing them to make an appearance.  If they make the appearance the probate office then decide if they have a valid case, e.g. the will is invalid or they have a legitimate claim on the estate.  You will no doubt incur costs, both legal and administrative, and significant delays trying to remove the caveat, but it shouldn't go on for ever.    

I can't see how a person can maintain the delay if it's just for the reasons you state.

The advice from the Probate Office and most legal organisations is to try and sort it between you and the Caveator.  When you are up against a vindictive person who does not reply to your letters and the weeks turn into months then you are almost at the 6 month mark so you hope they may not renew the caveat.  But they do renew it so you do a rethink and start worrying about going down the legal route and all the expenses involved. 

Sounds like you have been reading up on this but not actually involved, but I have and have met people who are no further forward and £15K out of  pocket after several years of trying to get caveats removed.  

Can you explain what you mean in your final sentence please? 

You're not quite right. I read up on the procedure, discussed it with a solicitor and then used it.

The day after my parent's death I was told by the will's executor, my sibling, I'd been left out of the will.  

This was the first time I'd heard of this.  For over 50 years I'd been told the estate was to be split equally between the surviving children.  As I had, or so I thought, a pretty good relationship with my parent (including being their sole carer for nearly 5 years at one time), I'm sure you can imagine my shock at the news.

Therefore, I placed a caveat on the probate after taking advice.

After a couple of months I did reach an agreement with the executor as to what I would receive from the estate and removed the caveat.  Luckily, this didn't involve too much cost as I initially had legal cover with my house insurance and they explained the basics of the caveat process.

I then paid for a couple of hours solicitor time to agree/adjust my wording of the agreement.  I now wait for the probate to come through to see if the agreement is honoured.  I'm not holding my breath it will be honoured and fully expect to use a solicitor again.

With regard to my last sentence, if you asked for, and they did make, an appearance I can't see how the Probate Service would consider purely malicious or vindicative motives as a sound reason to continue with the caveat for the length of time you've indicated.

Finally, I'm not trying to make light of what is always a bad situation when there is a contentious probate.  Whilst I'm approaching this from the opposite direction to you, I'm the challenger, I'm fully aware it can get very expensive if you use solicitors for all the stages of the process. My solicitor said about £10k at least to contest a will.  But, there are some parts of the process you can do for yourself with only minimal legal support, such as asking for an appearance. 

If you (as the Caveator) have removed the caveat then the Probate Office will go ahead and approve the application since you have an agreement.  It sounds like you were prepared to discuss things with your brother so things moved on quickly. 

I provided everything the Caveator would need and in a timely manner and they always knew that they would get their fair share of the Will.  They then started asking for things they already had just to delay the process.  I did as much as I could myself without using a Solicitor. In the end we did issue a Warning and the Probate Office emailed 7 months later to say the Grant had been approved with no explanation at all.  I was told the Caveator had to issue a statement to the Registry which they would consider and get back to me if they needed to hear my side of things. They never did, so  I can only assume they were not fooled by a pack of lies and went ahead and approved my application.

I understand where you're coming from now and how it took 2 years.  I don't think I would have had your patience and probably have issued a warning after the first unwarranted delay, if I was in your position.

BTW, the executor and I get on worse than William and Harry so I still don't expect a simple resolution.  Despite their signed agreement I can see this ending up in court.  Mind you, goodness knows when that'll be as we're at 22 weeks and counting after removing the caveat and still waiting for probate.

Pennylane

uknick said:

Pennylane said:

uknick said:

Pennylane said:

uknick said:

Pennylane said:

I do feel sympathy for you guys who are waiting weeks or months for probate to be granted and the service is not good.  However, you do know it will go through at some point unlike the many people (myself included) who had to wait years (2 in my case but many are a lot longer) because somebody has put a Caveat on the application and you are well and truly stuck then.  They can then keep renewing the Caveat every 6 months if they so choose.

It’s  often a vindictive or jealous person who puts a Caveat on and it costs them just £3 (where does that figure come from and what can you get for £3 these days?) to do this and they don’t even have to say why they are doing this.  It is a very outdated and unfair system that allows this and should be reviewed urgently. 

The stress is dreadful and all consuming, the solicitors fees are shocking and your life is completely on hold while you try and reason with people who are hellbent on wrecking your life while you are still grieving the deceased family member.

You challenge a caveat by giving the caveat submitter a warning forcing them to make an appearance.  If they make the appearance the probate office then decide if they have a valid case, e.g. the will is invalid or they have a legitimate claim on the estate.  You will no doubt incur costs, both legal and administrative, and significant delays trying to remove the caveat, but it shouldn't go on for ever.    

I can't see how a person can maintain the delay if it's just for the reasons you state.

The advice from the Probate Office and most legal organisations is to try and sort it between you and the Caveator.  When you are up against a vindictive person who does not reply to your letters and the weeks turn into months then you are almost at the 6 month mark so you hope they may not renew the caveat.  But they do renew it so you do a rethink and start worrying about going down the legal route and all the expenses involved. 

Sounds like you have been reading up on this but not actually involved, but I have and have met people who are no further forward and £15K out of  pocket after several years of trying to get caveats removed.  

Can you explain what you mean in your final sentence please? 

You're not quite right. I read up on the procedure, discussed it with a solicitor and then used it.

The day after my parent's death I was told by the will's executor, my sibling, I'd been left out of the will.  

This was the first time I'd heard of this.  For over 50 years I'd been told the estate was to be split equally between the surviving children.  As I had, or so I thought, a pretty good relationship with my parent (including being their sole carer for nearly 5 years at one time), I'm sure you can imagine my shock at the news.

Therefore, I placed a caveat on the probate after taking advice.

After a couple of months I did reach an agreement with the executor as to what I would receive from the estate and removed the caveat.  Luckily, this didn't involve too much cost as I initially had legal cover with my house insurance and they explained the basics of the caveat process.

I then paid for a couple of hours solicitor time to agree/adjust my wording of the agreement.  I now wait for the probate to come through to see if the agreement is honoured.  I'm not holding my breath it will be honoured and fully expect to use a solicitor again.

With regard to my last sentence, if you asked for, and they did make, an appearance I can't see how the Probate Service would consider purely malicious or vindicative motives as a sound reason to continue with the caveat for the length of time you've indicated.

Finally, I'm not trying to make light of what is always a bad situation when there is a contentious probate.  Whilst I'm approaching this from the opposite direction to you, I'm the challenger, I'm fully aware it can get very expensive if you use solicitors for all the stages of the process. My solicitor said about £10k at least to contest a will.  But, there are some parts of the process you can do for yourself with only minimal legal support, such as asking for an appearance. 

If you (as the Caveator) have removed the caveat then the Probate Office will go ahead and approve the application since you have an agreement.  It sounds like you were prepared to discuss things with your brother so things moved on quickly. 

I provided everything the Caveator would need and in a timely manner and they always knew that they would get their fair share of the Will.  They then started asking for things they already had just to delay the process.  I did as much as I could myself without using a Solicitor. In the end we did issue a Warning and the Probate Office emailed 7 months later to say the Grant had been approved with no explanation at all.  I was told the Caveator had to issue a statement to the Registry which they would consider and get back to me if they needed to hear my side of things. They never did, so  I can only assume they were not fooled by a pack of lies and went ahead and approved my application.

I understand where you're coming from now and how it took 2 years.  I don't think I would have had your patience and probably have issued a warning after the first unwarranted delay, if I was in your position.

BTW, the executor and I get on worse than William and Harry so I still don't expect a simple resolution.  Despite their signed agreement I can see this ending up in court.  Mind you, goodness knows when that'll be as we're at 22 weeks and counting after removing the caveat and still waiting for probate.

Like I said it took 7 months for the Probate Office to get back to me, so plenty of time for you yet!  

ElmoR

Thank you all for your replies

Wow! I thought there would be people out there with similar stories to share and advice based on experience. I'll follow up with a complaint about the solicitor delay (with the solicitors office first) once (fingers crossed) the probate office comes back with the approval...in more than 16 weeks...probably.

Thankfully, my brother and I get on OK and agree on most things. There's no one else who could throw a spanner in the works i terms of caveats.

I'm still torn between emptying the house ourselves and hiring someone. Much of the easy stuff is now either at the nearest waste centre or charity shops. I'm on first name terms with the waste centre staff, even though I live 100s of miles away They accepted a utility letter with my Father's address/details to allow me in. There's the big furniture left now, it's old, very dated and the charity shops didn't want them. So it's a case of dismantling in the house and bringing out in bits for the waste centre, and I only have a fiesta, so not feasible. Not a big fan of driving rental vans. Hmmm, maybe I could hire a skip and have it laid on the driveway and fill that over a few days...Or just hire someone...Ah well, 16 weeks minimum to procrastinate...

It is/has been stressful. People use that phrase don't they..."at least no one died"...oh! ...

Thanks again - I wish everyone a short wait,

ElmoR x

oglop

ElmoR: there are a lot of things these days that you can't put in a skip, so be aware of that. I'd personally recommend just hiring someone to clear it. I went through something similar with my dad (which is related to my comment in this thread about waiting for probate...) and I emptied most of it myself but still ended up hiring a waste company to take the big stuff away. But, yes, at least 16 weeks to ponder over it..! Good luck

Savvy_Sue

oglop said:

ElmoR: there are a lot of things these days that you can't put in a skip, so be aware of that. I'd personally recommend just hiring someone to clear it. I went through something similar with my dad (which is related to my comment in this thread about waiting for probate...) and I emptied most of it myself but still ended up hiring a waste company to take the big stuff away. But, yes, at least 16 weeks to ponder over it..! Good luck

I'm with oglop: hang the expense and pay someone else to do it. As I said before, I'd recommend the clearance route, especially as you've been unwell. 

emma203

Another vote for the "man with a van" option - I still maintain that the £200 it cost to have my mother's garage cleared is the best money I have ever spent. 

ElmoR

Here we are, another 16 weeks passed and still no word yet from the probate office. Though I probably will email the useless solicitors office and double check they didn't hear 10 weeks ago and forgot to let me know...

You are all going to think I'm nuts, but we travel down to the house next weekend and do the house clearance. After a bit of research and connections to the local businesses available, we opted for a giant skip hire (£480) and our own labour - £whatever it costs in petrol to get there and back plus B&B for 2 nights. We'll do some tourist type things too, so a sort of break/holiday. The B&B for the first night is near a town household waste centre, we pick all the exotic destinations! It'll be handy for dropping off the rest of the WEE type items including a prototype betamax video which must have concrete inside because it weighs a tonne.

Hopefully we will have a clear house and will be ready for the next phase of getting it on the market...wish us luck with the mallet, screwdrivers, and saws...oh, and some luck with the probate office would be nice too...