Euro Carparks claim form now received (another DCB legal)

Littlevoice21

I received a fine as registered keeper for an alleged overstay in a Euro Carparks location in Nottingham on 2nd December.   Appealed with standard template as registered keeper which was rejected. Now have a POPLA code to appeal to them but looking for advice on what to include and chances of success. have been browsing the forum but feeling a bit overwhelmed with all the detail people have put into their appeals and knowing where to start.

think my best grounds are signage as I read ECP have been found against for this in the past. I’ve attached a photo of one of their signs at the location. 

Was also intending to mention grace periods. The alleged overstay was 20 minutes but still thought worth mentioning. In their response to my initial appeal they also got the timings completely wrong for the times of leave and entering at one stage and were alleging a 3 minute overstay well within the required grace period. However they also included time stamped photos of the vehicle on entrance and exit a with the correct original times.  

NTK was received within the time frame and appears to have the correct wording so not sure I have grounds there.

worth mentioning that the car park is above a wilko’s store and the driver also has receipts proving they were a customer there which they included in initial appeal. 

The total fine is £60 if paid now but going up to £100 which definitely seems excessive!  Previous POPLA outcomes I’ve looked at said up to £85 was considered reasonable but wondering if this is also worth arguing with it being even more.

Also wondering how litigious ECP have generally been found to be should POPLA appeal not be successful? 

Littlevoice21

Photo of signage

Coupon-mad

You won't be paying.

Signage is you best bet (not guaranteed), or just don't try POPLA at all.

Pursue a complaint to the retail park next week instead.  Usually they have a website or you can Google to find who runs the place (if their name and phone number isn't on the 'totem' retail units welcome sign at the entrance).

Littlevoice21

I have  received a claim form from county court today for a Euro car parks fine in December 2022 (as above) which has freaked me out to be honest as wasn’t expecting it to go to court as everything I’d previously read said Euro Carparks weren’t generally litigious. Weirdly I had no letter before claim just the usually debt recovery letters and then received the claim form today out of the blue a week before Christmas. They’re claiming £283 total for would have been a 2 hour free as above.   Will have a look at the standard templates but does not having a letter before claim change anything? I only have 14 days to respond and going away for Christmas on a Monday so basically just have the weekend . No joy with the retailer as never got a reply when I contacted them originally. It was a wilko’s and has now changed to a different store  

date of issue is 17th December (looks like I should complete of claim online not before Sunday 22nd?)

KeithP

Littlevoice21 said:

I have  received a claim form... 

date of issue is 17th December (looks like I should complete of claim online not before Sunday 22nd?)

With a Claim Issue Date of 17th December, you have until Monday 6th January 2025 to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 20th January 2025 to file a Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Littlevoice21

Thanks. Have been having a look at them. Thought I’d read something about waiting until day 5 for acknowledgment of claim so not to reduce your total time which is where I got Sunday from. Otherwise may just get that done tonight or tomorrow so it’s done and I can look at the defence properly first thing in the new year when I’m back.   Also still feeling like I’ve missed a step with having no letter before claim from DCB legal so nothing direct from them to respond to.

KeithP

Littlevoice21 said:

Thought I’d read something about waiting until day 5 for acknowledgment of claim so not to reduce your total time which is where I got Sunday from.

Yes you probably did read that and it is generally true.

Courts are a bit like banks in that after closing on Friday all transactions are attributed to the following working day - the Monday.

So you can safely Acknowledge Service of the claim at any time you like without reducing the time available to file a Defence.

Littlevoice21

Have completed acknowledgment of service on MCOL as advised. Will mark 20th Jan in my calendar and come back early in the new year to look more at the defence.  Looks like mainly just paragraph 3 that I need to change to my particular case?

Gr1pr

Correct, but dont forget to add an ending to paragraph 2 as well

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6575385/registration-entry-error-vs-civil-enforcement-ew-dcb-legal#latest

Coupon-mad

Don't be freaked out. No need. This is so easy. You'll be using our detailed Template Defence.

This month I've even started giving people with DCB Legal claims a generic script for that paragraph 3 too! Leaving people just the end of paragraph 2 to add some words and literally ONE DATE to change in para 3.

And your name & claim details added at the top. Signature and date at the end. Job done.

It is twenty times easier than any appeals system. Done by email. No risk. No cost.

No hearing because they discontinue.

No solicitor nor law knowledge needed.

We win or see discontinuations 99% of the time. No risk. We are glad you found us.

I hate providing links to threads because it stops people seeing how to hop around and finding & reading threads for themselves. But in the spirit of the Season, here's one showing what to put for para 3:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81139187/#Comment_81139187

That shows you some 'deny the POC' wording to include in your para 3.

And of course use the whole Template Defence but we don't want to be shown it ... please!

Then follow the first 12 steps in the Template Defence thread so that you don't need to ask us (please...) about the DQ questions or the laughable Mediation phone call.

We hope that we are only needed again by Defendants at WS & evidence stage next year. The 'first 12 steps' advice saves us all time.

Littlevoice21

Thanks for your help. Feeling a bit less freaked out! I've copied and pasted and made the minor adjustments where necessary including the standard paragraph 3 linked to.  The only other thing I thought might be worth adding in was something around grace periods? (think I've seen some other references to that I used for POPLA stage). (was an overstay less than 15 minutes after 2 hour free. Reason given on claim form is 'the vehicle was parked without a valid pay by phone transaction).  Anything else I should add? 

Is the correct e mail to send to still 

ClaimResponses.CNBC@justice.gov.uk

and is it ok to sign by typing my name? (to save print off and scanning in).