Landlord trying to force us into another fixed term contract

ashleyj722

We signed a 12 month contract which has now moved onto a rolling basis without prior agreement from the landlord as mentioned in our tenancy agreement. Landlord which is a company wants us to sign another fixed term for 12 months which isn’t ideal for us as we want the flexibility to move out.  The apartment was taken over by a new company back in January but this was past our two month notice period that both parties were meant to give to end the fixed term.  If we are issued a section 21 notice, would refusing to sign a new tenancy agreement fall into the scope of a retaliatory eviction?

_Penny_Dreadful

ashleyj722 said:

We signed a 12 month contract which has now moved onto a rolling basis without prior agreement from the landlord as mentioned in our tenancy agreement. Landlord which is a company wants us to sign another fixed term for 12 months which isn’t ideal for us as we want the flexibility to move out.  The apartment was taken over by a new company back in January but this was past our two month notice period that both parties were meant to give to end the fixed term.  If we are issued a section 21 notice, would refusing to sign a new tenancy agreement fall into the scope of a retaliatory eviction?

Starting a periodic tenancy following a fixed term doesn’t require your landlord’s agreement. Either it’s already been given in your tenancy agreement in which case a contractual periodic tenancy will automatically start the day following the end of the fixed term or if the tenancy agreement is silent on the matter a statutory periodic tenancy will automatically start. That is statutory law and not something your landlord can prevent. 

You currently have a periodic tenancy and your landlord choosing to issue a Section 21 would not be considered retaliatory, retaliatory evictions arise when tenants request repairs and rather than repair the landlord seeks to evict. That’s the risk you take with a periodic tenancy. 

There’s a big difference between a letting agent trying to cajole you into signing a new fixed term using the ol’ Sword of Damocles (section 21) and a section 21 being issued and followed to its conclusion with a possession order from court. 

propertyrental

Read

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

ashleyj722 said:

We signed a 12 month contract which has now moved onto a rolling basis without prior agreement from the landlord as mentioned in our tenancy agreement.
No agreement required. See Housing Act.
 Landlord which is a company wants us to sign another fixed term for 12 months which isn’t ideal for us as we want the flexibility to move out.  
Then obviously don't sign!
The apartment was taken over by a new company back in January
Relevance? And did they comply with S3 of  

Landlord & Tenant Act 1985  ?

 but this was past our two month notice period that both parties were meant to give to end the fixed term.
Tenants do not need to serve notice to end a fixed term. They just need to vacate. That's what 'fixed term' means. When the term ends, so does the tenancy.
 If we are issued a section 21 notice, would refusing to sign a new tenancy agreement fall into the scope of a retaliatory eviction?

No. Retaliatory eviction applies where a tenant requests/demands repairs. See The Deregulation Act 2015 (S33)

theartfullodger

ashleyj722 said:

We signed a 12 month contract which has now moved onto a rolling basis without prior agreement from the landlord as mentioned in our tenancy agreement. Landlord which is a company wants us to sign another fixed term for 12 months which isn’t ideal for us as we want the flexibility to move out.  The apartment was taken over by a new company back in January but this was past our two month notice period that both parties were meant to give to end the fixed term.  If we are issued a section 21 notice, would refusing to sign a new tenancy agreement fall into the scope of a retaliatory eviction?

Taken over?  You mean the landlord (not agent) has changed from one company to another?  If so, unless the correct notice(s) are served then no rent due (yes, really) and possible criminal offence.

As above tenants are entitled to continue as periodic tenancy (Thatcher's iron handbag of the Housing Act 1988…).  Just ignore landlord's requests, no requirement to reply...

But will you need a reference?

Likely you only need to give at least 1 month's notice, not 2 months.

propertyrental

theartfullodger said:

ashleyj722 said:

We signed a 12 month contract which has now moved onto a rolling basis without prior agreement from the landlord as mentioned in our tenancy agreement. Landlord which is a company wants us to sign another fixed term for 12 months which isn’t ideal for us as we want the flexibility to move out.  The apartment was taken over by a new company back in January but this was past our two month notice period that both parties were meant to give to end the fixed term.  If we are issued a section 21 notice, would refusing to sign a new tenancy agreement fall into the scope of a retaliatory eviction?

....

Likely you only need to give at least 1 month's notice, not 2 months.

In a periodic tenancy, yes, but not here as it's a fixed term.

theartfullodger

propertyrental said:

theartfullodger said:

ashleyj722 said:

We signed a 12 month contract which has now moved onto a rolling basis without prior agreement from the landlord as mentioned in our tenancy agreement. Landlord which is a company wants us to sign another fixed term for 12 months which isn’t ideal for us as we want the flexibility to move out.  The apartment was taken over by a new company back in January but this was past our two month notice period that both parties were meant to give to end the fixed term.  If we are issued a section 21 notice, would refusing to sign a new tenancy agreement fall into the scope of a retaliatory eviction?

....

Likely you only need to give at least 1 month's notice, not 2 months.

In a periodic tenancy, yes, but not here as it's a fixed term.

OP's initial post states it moved to periodic.

diystarter7

Hi OP

Sorry to hear about your woes.

We have a property or two to rent out,

We have let T's stroll into periodic tenancies whenwe first bought with a sitting T in it. Sine we employed a LA, it moves to another fixed term unless we do not want it or the T

In your case, the new LL's as the previous have every right to move into another 12AST etc##

However, the can not and I repeat, they cannot "force you." and that is a legal fact

If I was your LL and I wanted another 12 months AST and you did not, I would hand your notice. Just like you want convenience just inn case you leave before the 12 months if you sign another ASAT/12, the LL is in my judgement wanting security, ie knowledge they will have someone in there and no gap as far as possible as within the rules

You can say no and LL may not do anything and see how it goes but LL could just as easily hand you your notice.

Good luck

Titus_Wadd

diystarter7 said:

Hi OP

Sorry to hear about your woes.

We have a property or two to rent out,

We have let T's stroll into periodic tenancies whenwe first bought with a sitting T in it. Sine we employed a LA, it moves to another fixed term unless we do not want it or the T

In your case, the new LL's as the previous have every right to move into another 12AST etc##

However, the can not and I repeat, they cannot "force you." and that is a legal fact

If I was your LL and I wanted another 12 months AST and you did not, I would hand your notice. Just like you want convenience just inn case you leave before the 12 months if you sign another ASAT/12, the LL is in my judgement wanting security, ie knowledge they will have someone in there and no gap as far as possible as within the rules

You can say no and LL may not do anything and see how it goes but LL could just as easily hand you your notice.

Good luck

Ouch!  That sounds rather dark D.

Hedgepigs

If I was your LL and I wanted another 12 months AST and you did not, I would hand your notice. Just like you want convenience just inn case you leave before the 12 months if you sign another ASAT/12, the LL is in my judgement wanting security, ie knowledge they will have someone in there and no gap as far as possible as within the rules

I don't follow the logic in that. What difference would it make to have a gap by ending the tenancy now vs potentially a few months down the line should the tenant decide to give notice at some point once the tenancy has gone periodic?

Not saying the landlord wouldn't issue a s21 - some have some funny ideas - but I can't see the benefit to anyone by doing it.

_Penny_Dreadful

That is an interesting business plan @diystarter7, to get rid of a perfectly good tenant because they prefer a periodic tenancy to a fixed term. All my tenants are on a periodic tenancies, not that I have much choice in Scotland with the PRT but my tenants in Englandshire start on 6 month fixed term then go to periodic. That’s what I understand my learned Sasannach landlord friends do as well. This constant signing new fixed term agreements is usually driven by letting agents seeking to pocket extra fees rather than anything benefitting the landlord or tenant. 

Voids are part and parcel of being a landlord. Constantly signing fixed term contracts doesn’t reduce void periods and may actually increase them since tenants can just leave at the end of a fixed term whereas a periodic tenancy would require notice. 

diystarter7

_Penny_Dreadful said:

That is an interesting business plan @diystarter7, to get rid of a perfectly good tenant because they prefer a periodic tenancy to a fixed term. A

Hi @penny_dreadful

Thanks, it is for some and not for others. The important point you have missed and many others would miss is the fact that a LL
may not want someone to leave during the Christmas period or summer hols etc as they have plans and possibly managing the property themselves etc or even with a LA.  The other elementary point you have not considered is the fact we are all different but the justifcation I have give does apply and that is why some may not want a PT but a fixed  AST.

I don't expect you to agree with me but anyone else that reads this post and possibly not posting here may agree. 
Though we have not had to do that, if we had plans to go away for weeks as we do sometimes I amy not agree  to a PT
as I don't want to be constantly looking over my shoulder. 

Never forget that it works for some and does not have to work for everyone.