UK CPM Parking Charge Notice

Couldey

Hello everyone, 

Mum’s been issued a PCN from UK Car Park Management requesting a £60.00 discounted rate payment, otherwise the full amount of £100.00 is due. 

Situation was that dad took MIL to an appointment, displayed her blue badge and paid for 1 hour of parking - no issues here. The reason for the PCN was ‘No Parking Outside Of A Designated Area’.

They went to some serviced offices, which I believe is managed by a property management company.

He parked next to another car with the floor having a faint marking, so he believes he parked correctly. UK CPM have included a couple of images on the PCN.

I can upload the PCN here and will delete key info like reg/address/ref number, but should I delete the incident time/date?

Going by the newbies thread, I believe I may need to use the template and appeal on UK CPM’s website - https://ukcpmappeals.iview.co.uk

Should I contact the property management company initially before appealing to UK CPM?

Would it be worth appealing this PCN? 

What’s the likelihood of squashing this PCN?

Admittedly, I’ve been here in the past and had great help from Coupon-mad five years ago, who over-turned a couple of POPLA tickets successfully. I don’t know if things have changed much since and if it’s harder to get these cancelled, or just pay the £60 and be done with it.

Thanks 😊 

Coupon-mad

Do NOT pay.  That's the first thing to say.

"Should I contact the property management company initially before appealing to UK CPM?"

Yes.  That's PLAN A in every case.

"Would it be worth appealing this PCN?" 

Yes and no. The keeper (Mum) should appeal it and attach a copy of the Blue Badge and say the driver was not her but the car was properly parked in what looked like a bay. 

Is it local enough to get photos of that 'bay' and faded white lines?  That will assist.

The appeal is done to look reasonable later (it will not work, it's not meant to).  If Dad (driver) is stronger than Mum in coping with the silly 'scary red writing' £170 debt demands that inevitably follow this year, then she should give his name and postal address now and transfer liability to him.

Chat about that now and decide.

If both Mum AND Dad are minded to "pay it to make it go away" then I'm sorry, that's just not OK, because this is a scam PCN from a rogue industry.  If that's the position then Mum names Dad as driver but gives YOUR postal address for him.  

You'd then get all the daft £170 debt demands, and you can laugh at them... you'd be in charge and can tell your parents nothing is happening.  If a court claim or a LBC from a solicitor arrives, then you'd tell us here about it first - perfectly defendable.

"What’s the likelihood of squashing this PCN?"

Landowner cancellation, yes.

Appeal, no.

Court, yes.

Decide NOW whether Mum names Dad as driver and whether your postal address is given.  That's what I'd do if they are elderly.

Couldey

Thank you for your reply Coupon-mad, much appreciated. Few things I want to clarify.

Over what sort of time frame will this go away?

To clarify, first appeal is to the land owner - I don’t know who that would be to be honest. I guess I would need to ask for the details by calling the serviced building receptionist. 

I will do my best to get pictures of the location, it’s not too far. Only problem is by the time I finish work this week it will be dark. I could get there on the weekend and meet dad so he can point out where he parked. 

“If both Mum AND Dad are minded to "pay it to make it go away" then I'm sorry, that's just not OK, because this is a scam PCN from a rogue industry.  If that's the position then Mum names Dad as driver but gives YOUR postal address for him.  

You'd then get all the daft £170 debt demands, and you can laugh at them... you'd be in charge and can tell your parents nothing is happening.  If a court claim or a LBC from a solicitor arrives, then you'd tell us here about it first - perfectly defendable.”

Reference to the above, does this mean it will most likely end up in court?

Slightly confused as to why your suggesting to give my address? So my parents don’t have to see the numerous £170 letters in the future? 

How many further debt collection letters will potentially be sent in the future until it is resolved? If they know how many £170 scam letters to expect, they will be fine.

I’m trying to upload the letter here but it keeps saying ‘Body is 9 characters too short’. I’ve also reduced the file size of the letter - can anyone help with this please?

Thank you.

KeithP

Couldey said:

I’m trying to upload the letter here but it keeps saying ‘Body is 9 characters too short’. I’ve also reduced the file size of the letter - can anyone help with this please?

Write a few words in the post to go with the picture.
Something like "here is the letter" is good enough.

Couldey

That’s great KeithP  thank you.

Johnersh

Well they'd better have more photos than that, because those don't prove anything, other than that the recipient owns a black smart car. 

No bay lines and no signage remotely near the car.... 

I suspect the allegation is parking in the wrong place not being outside bay markings. 

Coupon-mad

Hard to tell but there is a faded bit of white line to the right (between the cars) that makes it look like it IS a bay.  Certainly ambiguous.  Better photos will help the appeal, showing that space and that white dividing line.

Slightly confused as to why your suggesting to give my address? So my parents don’t have to see the numerous £170 letters in the future? 

Yes. That's what I'd do, because (sadly) so many times we hear that the older generation has just paid up after a few 'scary' demands.  People wrongly think it's a fine and they imagine they are in trouble or might face a CCJ or high costs (not true).  I'm no spring chicken myself (retired but not a pensioner yet, long story) so I'm not being ageist, just pragmatic!

How many further debt collection letters will potentially be sent in the future until it is resolved? If they know how many £170 scam letters to expect, they will be fine.

Letters once a month or a bit less, potentially for up to six years(!) but probably a court claim much sooner unless you can get this quashed.

It will only be resolved:

(A) if the landowner cancels it;

(B) if you get you parents' MP to write and complain about the unclear line markings to UKCPM's Trade Body the IPC, and maybe UKCPM will back off;

(C) if the Keeper (or named driver if that seems better for your family) appeals and wins.  Happens occasionally - and in one in five appeals to the IAS (which is NOT considered fair nor independent) see the parking firm pull out;

(D) if in the end they file a court claim. The Defendant (Mum or Dad, decide now) is likely to win because we almost always do, and that does look ambiguous enough to make a driver think it's the end bay.  Winnable in court.  Ambiguity has to be interpreted in favour of the consumer.

KeithP

Johnersh said:

I suspect the allegation is parking in the wrong place not being outside bay markings. 

Yes, that's the allegation.
From the PCN...

Couldey

Coupon-mad said:

Hard to tell but there is a faded bit of white line to the right (between the cars) that makes it look like it IS a bay.  Certainly ambiguous.  Better photos will help the appeal, showing that space and that white dividing line.

Slightly confused as to why your suggesting to give my address? So my parents don’t have to see the numerous £170 letters in the future? 

Yes. That's what I'd do, because (sadly) so many times we hear that the older generation has just paid up after a few 'scary' demands.  People wrongly think it's a fine and they imagine they are in trouble or might face a CCJ or high costs (not true).  I'm no spring chicken myself (retired but not a pensioner yet, long story) so I'm not being ageist, just pragmatic!

It will only be resolved:

(A) if the landowner cancels it;

(B) if you get you parents' MP to write and complain about the unclear line markings to UKCPM's Trade Body the IPC, and maybe UKCPM will back off;

(C) if the Keeper (or named driver if that seems better for your family) appeals and wins.  Happens occasionally - and in one in five appeals to the IAS (which is NOT considered fair nor independent) see the parking firm pull out;

(D) if in the end they file a court claim. The Defendant (Mum or Dad, decide now) is likely to win because we almost always do, and that does look ambiguous enough to make a driver think it's the end bay.  Winnable in court.  Ambiguity has to be interpreted in favour of the consumer.

You’re right, there is a slight faded line next to the silver car’s rear door, but that’s about it from what I can see, nothing to the rear or left side of the Smart Car.

Thank you for being considerate and thoughtful for them. Once I tell them the score and what to expect, they’ll be ok with receiving the letters.

I’ll be honest, I think option (B) probably wouldn’t happen for them. 

I’ll do my best to get the pictures of the bay tomorrow evening and report back. I also need to get the land owners details somehow. 

Big thank you for everyone’s input so far 😊 Coupon-mad, you’ve been fantastic once again.

Couldey

Evening all, just a few questions for clarity and planning ahead. 

Earlier in the thread it was recommended to send a picture of the Blue Badge for the appeal because this was on display when parked. As my dad was driving mum’s car, with my gran (just dad and gran together) and displayed my gran’s blue badge, does it need to be gran’s BB picture? Would UK CPM have a picture of this? As I will need to get a picture of this when I see her towards the weekend. My mum is also a BB holder so I guess I can’t/shouldn’t use her BB picture.

I’ve tried finding out who the land owner is for the site for the first complaint, but proving to be difficult. Receptionist gave an email for a ‘site/building manager’ but dubious about going down this avenue. The site is the Vista Centre - TW4 6JQ.

Is there a time limit by where I need to submit the first complaint by? Notice issue date was 07/02/2023.

What’s the chances of bailiffs turning up at their home at any point in the future? I appriciate this maybe a bit of paranoia from my side, as if I’m going in for the long haul, I just want us all ready and prepared. Plus no additional stress for them, that’ll be on me 😤

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Yes - it must be Gran's Blue Badge.

The PCN tells you that there is just 21 days for the keeper or driver to appeal online so the complaints are best lodged this week, to see if the landowner will cancel, early doors.

Bailiffs?!  LOL.  Impossible.