Duty and Vat, invoice after delivery - New question not previous addressed

born_again

saltcod1 said:

user1977 said:

But you're liable [or at least would be under normal circumstances...] under statute, not as a matter of contract.

Under the relavent statute, I apparently (according to trading standards) do have the right to refuse delivery. 

Yes you have a right to refuse delivery.
But the tax man has the right to their tax. Which is due paid when it arrives in UK & goes through customs. Which is why couriers pay it for you.
So it becomes a stalemate.

In reality the only way for what you suggested to work, would be customs hold ALL packages & contact the receiver for payment before releasing to courier once paid.

You can guess the outcry on that from people, due to the long delays to get their goods.

saltcod1

born_again said:

Yes you have a right to refuse delivery.
But the tax man has the right to their tax. Which is due paid when it arrives in UK & goes through customs. Which is why couriers pay it for you.
So it becomes a stalemate.

In reality the only way for what you suggested to work, would be customs hold ALL packages & contact the receiver for payment before releasing to courier once paid.

You can guess the outcry on that from people, due to the long delays to get their goods.

Seems to me that it should be a fairly simply task of the courier company to establish from the customs declaration the "reason for sending". If the package is soliciated, ie. goods purchased, then yes.. pay and bill receiver. But if goods unsolicited, a package that the addressee doesn't even know was sent.. then why would they be upset that there was a delay in its processing. They wouldn't know about it. 

Phantom151

Seems to me that it should be a fairly simply task of the courier company to establish from the customs declaration the "reason for sending". If the package is soliciated, ie. goods purchased, then yes.. pay and bill receiver. But if goods unsolicited, a package that the addressee doesn't even know was sent.. then why would they be upset that there was a delay in its processing. They wouldn't know about it. 

It would be a bit odd for a shipper to send goods unsolicited. There are a few reasons for shipping that are selected on customs docs. These are usually things like sale, returned for repair, returned after repair, sample and temporary export. No courier is going to think that someone is going to spend a tidy sum to shipsomething to the other side of the world for no good reason. shipping ain't cheap.

DullGreyGuy

You've not said what the item is yet... something that's $2,500 should have a residual value over $500 

Manxman_in_exile

saltcod1 said:

As an aside.. he also said that he has been waiting for a case such as this to actually go through the courts. 

I'm a bit surprised that a senior TS Inspector would have been waiting for a case like this to go throught the courts.  Is he expecting it to reach the Supreme Court or something?   

(@saltcod1 - has he offered a contribution to your costs?  I'd have thought it would need to reach the Court of Appeal before it became a meaningful precedent)

born_again

saltcod1 said:

born_again said:

Yes you have a right to refuse delivery.
But the tax man has the right to their tax. Which is due paid when it arrives in UK & goes through customs. Which is why couriers pay it for you.
So it becomes a stalemate.

In reality the only way for what you suggested to work, would be customs hold ALL packages & contact the receiver for payment before releasing to courier once paid.

You can guess the outcry on that from people, due to the long delays to get their goods.

Seems to me that it should be a fairly simply task of the courier company to establish from the customs declaration the "reason for sending". If the package is soliciated, ie. goods purchased, then yes.. pay and bill receiver. But if goods unsolicited, a package that the addressee doesn't even know was sent.. then why would they be upset that there was a delay in its processin

. 

gThey wouldn't know about it. 

Do you think a company would put "unsolicited"  on any custom form even if there was that option?

It is also odd that any company would send something that had a declared worth $2500 (£2000) in that way? 
Is this something that you have looked at or in your field of employment of hobby? That they think you may be interested in?

 I see what you are getting at but would require the whole customs system to be reworked, with resulting delays to deliveries. Perhaps they should make senders liable for all customs charges & increase costs to buyers.  

saltcod1

DullGreyGuy said:

You've not said what the item is yet... something that's $2,500 should have a residual value over $500 

The item is a small and valuable antique. It would certainly have a current market value of at least $2500... but perhaps a great deal more.  From what I've gathered since, the sender had hoped I would undertake a fairly sophisticated technical analysis of the item... with a view to that perhaps helping to determine its true value more accurately. Without wishing to come across as big headed.. since I'm one of perhaps only 3 people in the world that might have been able to help in this regard, so it's not that unusual that it was sent internationally but the sender was very much mistaken about everything else. For starters, I have a 5 year waiting list and then only undertake such work after an extensive consultancy with very specific terms and conditions, which would include the insurance, import/export of any item, being formally agreed well before an item would be shipped.   

I hope this also explains why the package was not opened by me and ultimately returned to the sender once they could be contacted.  

Phantom151

Ah. There may well be a solution then. As long as it hasn't been in the country for more than 6 months then get the original sender to pay for the return (sorry if I have missed this). Get on the phone to DHL customs and tell them it was incorrectly imported as a commercial import when it should've been a temporary import. If you can provide proof of export then the charges should be cancelled out.

saltcod1

Phantom151 said:

If you can provide proof of export then the charges should be cancelled out.

Well.. thats what I would have thought too... especially since it was DHL themselves who collected the item and returned it to the sender. But no.. they are adament that I must pay them first and then look to HMRC to be refunded.. which I can only do.. once I prove that the item was returned to sender... which I can only do with DHL's help.

A totally bizarre situation. 

Phantom151

Did they give you a waybill number when they collected?