Is stopping at red lights now optional?

The_Unready

^^^^^^^^
Wot he said!

And I'd add in the need for a review of sentencing guidelines for careless/dangerous driving when a collision results in a loss of life.

Too many judges/juries appear to think that a 'a momentary lapse of concentration' is an acceptable reason for killing pedestrians, cyclists, drivers or other road users.

I've lost count of the reports I've read where such loss of life is only worth a couple of years jail time, often because those responsible are 'extremely remorseful' for their actions and would have to ' live with the guilt for the rest of their lives'.

The time to think about your driving behaviour is before you cause a collision, not afterwards!

Society needs to harden its attitudes to reckless/dangerous driving and make it as unacceptable as drink driving (although noting that doesn't stop the determined/ignorant drink driver).

Username03725

The answer is Yes, for more & more people a red light is not a direct instruction to stop.

The glib answer that's done the rounds for a few years is this:

Green: Go

Amber: Quick, 3 or 4 can make it

Red: Oh go on then, just a couple more.

Red + Amber: Floor it, this is your Grand Prix start.

It scares me sometimes sitting at lights on a 4-way and seeing cars sail past in front of where I'm queuing as the lights go Red + Amber and traffic is still sailing through from the right where it clearly is already red.

And people think cyclists are the problem. I'd rather have a cyclist crumple himself into my offside door than a 1½ ton car accelerating to get through.

jimbo6977

not condoning jumping red lights, but it seems to me that covid provide an excuse/opportunity for local authorities to diddle about with traffic light timings, usually to the detriment and frustration of motorists. there are several examples on my daily commute, which i would rather avoid, but that would push me onto narrow country lanes instead of using the nice new dual carriageway bypass, which i can't imagine being a desirable result. 

sheramber

Norman_Castle said:

Car_54 said:

Norman_Castle said:

It also seems that you now don't have to wait at a zebra crossing if the crossing pedestrian is no longer directly ahead of you.

 

You don’t (and never have). The law says the pedestrian has precedence. That doesn’t mean you have to wait until he has crossed completely.

Are you sure? I've always waited until a pedestrian had fully crossed the road. I don't remember being taught to do this but it was how all drivers treated crossings.

Rule 19

"Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."

The above states drivers must give way to pedestrians on a crossing, it doesn't say only when ahead of you in the lane you are in.

Crossings with central islands are treated as two separate crossings. I've looked online and the only information I can find is rule 20,

Rule 20

"Where there is an island in the middle of a zebra crossing, wait on the island and follow Rule 19 before you cross the second half of the road - it is a separate crossing."

The fact that crossings with central islands are treated as separate crossings needs defining suggests crossings without central islands should be treated as a single crossing and drivers should wait until the crossing is clear.

New rules for zebra crossings 2022

https://www.allenmotorgroup.co.uk/news/new-driving-laws-2022/


Drivers will also have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists waiting to cross a parallel crossing or zebra crossing (previously you only had to give way if they’re already on the crossing).

Car_54

sheramber said:

Norman_Castle said:

Car_54 said:

Norman_Castle said:

It also seems that you now don't have to wait at a zebra crossing if the crossing pedestrian is no longer directly ahead of you.

 

You don’t (and never have). The law says the pedestrian has precedence. That doesn’t mean you have to wait until he has crossed completely.

Are you sure? I've always waited until a pedestrian had fully crossed the road. I don't remember being taught to do this but it was how all drivers treated crossings.

Rule 19

"Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."

The above states drivers must give way to pedestrians on a crossing, it doesn't say only when ahead of you in the lane you are in.

Crossings with central islands are treated as two separate crossings. I've looked online and the only information I can find is rule 20,

Rule 20

"Where there is an island in the middle of a zebra crossing, wait on the island and follow Rule 19 before you cross the second half of the road - it is a separate crossing."

The fact that crossings with central islands are treated as separate crossings needs defining suggests crossings without central islands should be treated as a single crossing and drivers should wait until the crossing is clear.

New rules for zebra crossings 2022

https://www.allenmotorgroup.co.uk/news/new-driving-laws-2022/


Drivers will also have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists waiting to cross a parallel crossing or zebra crossing (previously you only had to give way if they’re already on the crossing).

That is not correct. The new Highway Code only says drivers SHOULD give way to pedestrians waiting to cross, not MUST. Rule 195.

MattMattMattUK

Car_54 said:

sheramber said:

Norman_Castle said:

Car_54 said:

Norman_Castle said:

It also seems that you now don't have to wait at a zebra crossing if the crossing pedestrian is no longer directly ahead of you.

 

You don’t (and never have). The law says the pedestrian has precedence. That doesn’t mean you have to wait until he has crossed completely.

Are you sure? I've always waited until a pedestrian had fully crossed the road. I don't remember being taught to do this but it was how all drivers treated crossings.

Rule 19

"Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."

The above states drivers must give way to pedestrians on a crossing, it doesn't say only when ahead of you in the lane you are in.

Crossings with central islands are treated as two separate crossings. I've looked online and the only information I can find is rule 20,

Rule 20

"Where there is an island in the middle of a zebra crossing, wait on the island and follow Rule 19 before you cross the second half of the road - it is a separate crossing."

The fact that crossings with central islands are treated as separate crossings needs defining suggests crossings without central islands should be treated as a single crossing and drivers should wait until the crossing is clear.

New rules for zebra crossings 2022

https://www.allenmotorgroup.co.uk/news/new-driving-laws-2022/


Drivers will also have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists waiting to cross a parallel crossing or zebra crossing (previously you only had to give way if they’re already on the crossing).

That is not correct. The new Highway Code only says drivers SHOULD give way to pedestrians waiting to cross, not MUST. Rule 195.

Rule 195

Zebra and parallel crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing

• look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
• you should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross
• you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
• allow more time for stopping on wet or icy roads
• do not wave, flash your lights or use your horn to invite pedestrians across; this could be dangerous if another vehicle is approaching
• be patient, do not sound your horn or rev your engine as this can be intimidating
• be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing.

A zebra crossing with a central island is two separate crossings (see Rules 19 and 20).

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

user1977

Car_54 said:

sheramber said:

Norman_Castle said:

Car_54 said:

Norman_Castle said:

It also seems that you now don't have to wait at a zebra crossing if the crossing pedestrian is no longer directly ahead of you.

 

You don’t (and never have). The law says the pedestrian has precedence. That doesn’t mean you have to wait until he has crossed completely.

Are you sure? I've always waited until a pedestrian had fully crossed the road. I don't remember being taught to do this but it was how all drivers treated crossings.

Rule 19

"Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."

The above states drivers must give way to pedestrians on a crossing, it doesn't say only when ahead of you in the lane you are in.

Crossings with central islands are treated as two separate crossings. I've looked online and the only information I can find is rule 20,

Rule 20

"Where there is an island in the middle of a zebra crossing, wait on the island and follow Rule 19 before you cross the second half of the road - it is a separate crossing."

The fact that crossings with central islands are treated as separate crossings needs defining suggests crossings without central islands should be treated as a single crossing and drivers should wait until the crossing is clear.

New rules for zebra crossings 2022

https://www.allenmotorgroup.co.uk/news/new-driving-laws-2022/


Drivers will also have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists waiting to cross a parallel crossing or zebra crossing (previously you only had to give way if they’re already on the crossing).

That is not correct. The new Highway Code only says drivers SHOULD give way to pedestrians waiting to cross, not MUST. Rule 195.

...and that was already stated in the previous quoted post. Not sure of the relevance anyway given we were discussing when drivers ought to move off after stopping...

diystarter7

Sea_Shell said:

diystarter7 said:

Norman_Castle said:

Sea_Shell said:

Optional red lights?   

Thanks for the heads up OP.


😉

To avoid motoring mayhem can I clarify, the thread title is a rhetorical question as demonstrated by the obviousness of the answer and the question mark at the end.

Can I please advise everybody in the world the thread title does not indicate or suggest anyone should use it as advice or instruction on how to navigate traffic light controlled junctions. If anyone still finds the title confusing can I suggest they consult a suitably qualified person for further instruction before operating a vehicle on public highways.

Please accept my apologies for any confusion my thread title may have caused.

Thanks.

Hi mate

Why not change the title as I recommended soon after you posted this thread??

Does anyone else feel that we should be considering the USA right turn at red lights when allowed in England?

Rules are changed every so often, so it is worth considering just like the USA, allowing it at certain lights where it is deemed safe to do so and help traffic flows.

Here, we tend to have directional green filter arrows on traffic lights that allow us to turn, when safe, whilst the straight on maybe still on red.   

I think they work well, and so I can't see any need to change to a "turn on red" system.  

Stubod said:

...from my experience it also appears that speed limits are also optional??

Yes, we do but nowhere near as many as the usa right turns on the read were allowed so you dont have to wait for the green arrow like you said. Therefore, I can clearly see a valid reason to consider this option at the next traffic rules change. It would indeed speed up the flow of traffic

MarvinDay

diystarter7 said:

Since you posted here others are now talking about some cyclists, battery scooter riders already see it as "optional" as they have seen many jump the red lights which is illegal!! (you see the confusion this title is causing?)

The only person who appears to be confused is you.
Everyone else can clearly see that the thread title is a question and not an instruction or order.

diystarter7

Car_54 said:

sheramber said:

Norman_Castle said:

Car_54 said:

Norman_Castle said:

It also seems that you now don't have to wait at a zebra crossing if the crossing pedestrian is no longer directly ahead of you.

 

You don’t (and never have). The law says the pedestrian has precedence. That doesn’t mean you have to wait until he has crossed completely.

Are you sure? I've always waited until a pedestrian had fully crossed the road. I don't remember being taught to do this but it was how all drivers treated crossings.

Rule 19

"Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped."

The above states drivers must give way to pedestrians on a crossing, it doesn't say only when ahead of you in the lane you are in.

Crossings with central islands are treated as two separate crossings. I've looked online and the only information I can find is rule 20,

Rule 20

"Where there is an island in the middle of a zebra crossing, wait on the island and follow Rule 19 before you cross the second half of the road - it is a separate crossing."

The fact that crossings with central islands are treated as separate crossings needs defining suggests crossings without central islands should be treated as a single crossing and drivers should wait until the crossing is clear.

New rules for zebra crossings 2022

https://www.allenmotorgroup.co.uk/news/new-driving-laws-2022/


Drivers will also have to give way to pedestrians and cyclists waiting to cross a parallel crossing or zebra crossing (previously you only had to give way if they’re already on the crossing).

That is not correct. The new Highway Code only says drivers SHOULD give way to pedestrians waiting to cross, not MUST. Rule 195.

Hi

I'm with @shamber as its my understanding as well

Quote from his link

Rule H2: New Priority for Pedestrians at Junctions

At a junction, drivers must give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road from which you are turning in to or out of.