Scotland - Property rental agent has invalidated my buildings insurance through mismanagement

letom

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

Have the insurance company actually told you that the insurance is invalid? I would be strongly arguing that the property is not empty but that the person is temporarily in the hospital. What would you have done if they had told you? There's nothing practical you could do.
As for the management company I think you have overshot. If you want to terminate the contract you need to go through the process correctly so I think you will find they will win any legal action.

The OP could have got unoccupied insurance until the tenant returned to the property and as for your comment about the letting agent winning any legal action, what a lot of nonsense. Unless you’ve been through the process in Scotland of holding a letting agent to the code of practice set out by the Scottish government perhaps you should refrain from commenting on such a thread. 

Okay I'll bite. What part of the code are you suggesting they have failed to comply with? The OP has decided not telling them about hospital visit amounts to gross mismanagement and unilaterally terminated the contract. 

Like the OP you can read the code yourself and pick out the sections you think the letting agent has failed to comply with. It’s not just failing to tell the OP about the property being left unoccupied but these threats, particularly towards the tenant, about being in breach of contract. The OP had more information than either of us about the situation and the contract with the letting agent so could pick out more. As I said earlier, my experience is that most letting agents cave before it gets to the FTT. What has been your experience of holding letting agents to the code of practice? 

Just out of curiosity what experience do you have e.g. are you a lawyer who has taken on multiple cases (how many) or a landlord who has taken on an agent (how many times?

_Penny_Dreadful

letom said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

Have the insurance company actually told you that the insurance is invalid? I would be strongly arguing that the property is not empty but that the person is temporarily in the hospital. What would you have done if they had told you? There's nothing practical you could do.
As for the management company I think you have overshot. If you want to terminate the contract you need to go through the process correctly so I think you will find they will win any legal action.

The OP could have got unoccupied insurance until the tenant returned to the property and as for your comment about the letting agent winning any legal action, what a lot of nonsense. Unless you’ve been through the process in Scotland of holding a letting agent to the code of practice set out by the Scottish government perhaps you should refrain from commenting on such a thread. 

Okay I'll bite. What part of the code are you suggesting they have failed to comply with? The OP has decided not telling them about hospital visit amounts to gross mismanagement and unilaterally terminated the contract. 

Like the OP you can read the code yourself and pick out the sections you think the letting agent has failed to comply with. It’s not just failing to tell the OP about the property being left unoccupied but these threats, particularly towards the tenant, about being in breach of contract. The OP had more information than either of us about the situation and the contract with the letting agent so could pick out more. As I said earlier, my experience is that most letting agents cave before it gets to the FTT. What has been your experience of holding letting agents to the code of practice? 

Just out of curiosity what experience do you have e.g. are you a lawyer who has taken on multiple cases (how many) or a landlord who has taken on an agent (how many times?

I am a landlord who has taken on letting agents 3 times using the code of practice and reached a settlement before it goes to the FTT. The whole thing is set up so that you don’t need to use a solicitor. I’d wager that’s 3 times more than anyone else posting on this thread. 

pramsay13

_Penny_Dreadful said:

letom said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

Have the insurance company actually told you that the insurance is invalid? I would be strongly arguing that the property is not empty but that the person is temporarily in the hospital. What would you have done if they had told you? There's nothing practical you could do.
As for the management company I think you have overshot. If you want to terminate the contract you need to go through the process correctly so I think you will find they will win any legal action.

The OP could have got unoccupied insurance until the tenant returned to the property and as for your comment about the letting agent winning any legal action, what a lot of nonsense. Unless you’ve been through the process in Scotland of holding a letting agent to the code of practice set out by the Scottish government perhaps you should refrain from commenting on such a thread. 

Okay I'll bite. What part of the code are you suggesting they have failed to comply with? The OP has decided not telling them about hospital visit amounts to gross mismanagement and unilaterally terminated the contract. 

Like the OP you can read the code yourself and pick out the sections you think the letting agent has failed to comply with. It’s not just failing to tell the OP about the property being left unoccupied but these threats, particularly towards the tenant, about being in breach of contract. The OP had more information than either of us about the situation and the contract with the letting agent so could pick out more. As I said earlier, my experience is that most letting agents cave before it gets to the FTT. What has been your experience of holding letting agents to the code of practice? 

Just out of curiosity what experience do you have e.g. are you a lawyer who has taken on multiple cases (how many) or a landlord who has taken on an agent (how many times?

I am a landlord who has taken on letting agents 3 times using the code of practice and reached a settlement before it goes to the FTT. The whole thing is set up so that you don’t need to use a solicitor. I’d wager that’s 3 times more than anyone else posting on this thread. 

You seem to have a problem with due diligence if 3 agents you have chosen have turned out to be operating against the codes of practices. 

letom

_Penny_Dreadful said:

letom said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

Have the insurance company actually told you that the insurance is invalid? I would be strongly arguing that the property is not empty but that the person is temporarily in the hospital. What would you have done if they had told you? There's nothing practical you could do.
As for the management company I think you have overshot. If you want to terminate the contract you need to go through the process correctly so I think you will find they will win any legal action.

The OP could have got unoccupied insurance until the tenant returned to the property and as for your comment about the letting agent winning any legal action, what a lot of nonsense. Unless you’ve been through the process in Scotland of holding a letting agent to the code of practice set out by the Scottish government perhaps you should refrain from commenting on such a thread. 

Okay I'll bite. What part of the code are you suggesting they have failed to comply with? The OP has decided not telling them about hospital visit amounts to gross mismanagement and unilaterally terminated the contract. 

Like the OP you can read the code yourself and pick out the sections you think the letting agent has failed to comply with. It’s not just failing to tell the OP about the property being left unoccupied but these threats, particularly towards the tenant, about being in breach of contract. The OP had more information than either of us about the situation and the contract with the letting agent so could pick out more. As I said earlier, my experience is that most letting agents cave before it gets to the FTT. What has been your experience of holding letting agents to the code of practice? 

Just out of curiosity what experience do you have e.g. are you a lawyer who has taken on multiple cases (how many) or a landlord who has taken on an agent (how many times?

I am a landlord who has taken on letting agents 3 times using the code of practice and reached a settlement before it goes to the FTT. The whole thing is set up so that you don’t need to use a solicitor. I’d wager that’s 3 times more than anyone else posting on this thread. 

This should be quite useful for the OP then, using that route to get them to drop the fees may be the best bet.

From a legal perspective the breach of contract feels quite weak. The letting agent certainly owes a duty of care to the landlord but convincing a judge that the contract has been materially breached because the landlord doesn't know the ins and out of a landlord's insurance policy is going be quite a tall order. Not to add just breaching a contract doesn't always allow parties to simply exit the agreement, not least because there are no real damages, only theoretical.

theartfullodger

Has the agent formally agreed to comply with the terms of YOUR insurance policy?  (Have you formally agreed to comply with agent's insurance policy terms?)  Have they seen the policy and all conditions?  (I'm a landlord: - including in Scotland - None of my agents had...).  

Your insurance policy.  Your responsibility, surely.

When you asked Scottish association of landlords what did they say please?

Great Calcutta cup result!

_Penny_Dreadful

pramsay13 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

letom said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

Have the insurance company actually told you that the insurance is invalid? I would be strongly arguing that the property is not empty but that the person is temporarily in the hospital. What would you have done if they had told you? There's nothing practical you could do.
As for the management company I think you have overshot. If you want to terminate the contract you need to go through the process correctly so I think you will find they will win any legal action.

The OP could have got unoccupied insurance until the tenant returned to the property and as for your comment about the letting agent winning any legal action, what a lot of nonsense. Unless you’ve been through the process in Scotland of holding a letting agent to the code of practice set out by the Scottish government perhaps you should refrain from commenting on such a thread. 

Okay I'll bite. What part of the code are you suggesting they have failed to comply with? The OP has decided not telling them about hospital visit amounts to gross mismanagement and unilaterally terminated the contract. 

Like the OP you can read the code yourself and pick out the sections you think the letting agent has failed to comply with. It’s not just failing to tell the OP about the property being left unoccupied but these threats, particularly towards the tenant, about being in breach of contract. The OP had more information than either of us about the situation and the contract with the letting agent so could pick out more. As I said earlier, my experience is that most letting agents cave before it gets to the FTT. What has been your experience of holding letting agents to the code of practice? 

Just out of curiosity what experience do you have e.g. are you a lawyer who has taken on multiple cases (how many) or a landlord who has taken on an agent (how many times?

I am a landlord who has taken on letting agents 3 times using the code of practice and reached a settlement before it goes to the FTT. The whole thing is set up so that you don’t need to use a solicitor. I’d wager that’s 3 times more than anyone else posting on this thread. 

You seem to have a problem with due diligence if 3 agents you have chosen have turned out to be operating against the codes of practices. 

Don’t try and turn the tables on me sunshine. You made a spurious claim about letting agents always winning on a topic you clearly know nothing about. 

_Penny_Dreadful

letom said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

letom said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

pramsay13 said:

Have the insurance company actually told you that the insurance is invalid? I would be strongly arguing that the property is not empty but that the person is temporarily in the hospital. What would you have done if they had told you? There's nothing practical you could do.
As for the management company I think you have overshot. If you want to terminate the contract you need to go through the process correctly so I think you will find they will win any legal action.

The OP could have got unoccupied insurance until the tenant returned to the property and as for your comment about the letting agent winning any legal action, what a lot of nonsense. Unless you’ve been through the process in Scotland of holding a letting agent to the code of practice set out by the Scottish government perhaps you should refrain from commenting on such a thread. 

Okay I'll bite. What part of the code are you suggesting they have failed to comply with? The OP has decided not telling them about hospital visit amounts to gross mismanagement and unilaterally terminated the contract. 

Like the OP you can read the code yourself and pick out the sections you think the letting agent has failed to comply with. It’s not just failing to tell the OP about the property being left unoccupied but these threats, particularly towards the tenant, about being in breach of contract. The OP had more information than either of us about the situation and the contract with the letting agent so could pick out more. As I said earlier, my experience is that most letting agents cave before it gets to the FTT. What has been your experience of holding letting agents to the code of practice? 

Just out of curiosity what experience do you have e.g. are you a lawyer who has taken on multiple cases (how many) or a landlord who has taken on an agent (how many times?

I am a landlord who has taken on letting agents 3 times using the code of practice and reached a settlement before it goes to the FTT. The whole thing is set up so that you don’t need to use a solicitor. I’d wager that’s 3 times more than anyone else posting on this thread. 

This should be quite useful for the OP then, using that route to get them to drop the fees may be the best bet.

From a legal perspective the breach of contract feels quite weak. The letting agent certainly owes a duty of care to the landlord but convincing a judge that the contract has been materially breached because the landlord doesn't know the ins and out of a landlord's insurance policy is going be quite a tall order. Not to add just breaching a contract doesn't always allow parties to simply exit the agreement, not least because there are no real damages, only theoretical.

No one needs to convince a judge of anything as it’s not a judge who would hear the case at the FTT….if it goes that far. Raising a formal complaint with the letting agent could be enough to get the letting agent to drop the £600 exit fee.

Also, the aim here is not to convince the letting agent or FTT that there has been a breach of contract.  The aim is to demonstrate the letting agent has not adhered to the code of practice set out for them by the Scottish government.

gandy666

HampshireH said:

There was a fire when the property was empty and not in use? How was that dealt with if no one was there?

Im not sure of whether it's different in Scotland but does your contract state they will notify you if the tenant is going to be absent?

The fire occurred under the oven. Burned itself out. Left with a 12 inch burn mark and an inch of carbon. 

gandy666

Insurance policy states that the property cannot be empty for more than 31 days in a row.

Tenant broke their back, leg, jaw, and numerous ribs. Agent was informed by a family member. It was pretty obvious he was going to be in hospital for an extended period of time.

gandy666

theartfullodger said:

Has the agent formally agreed to comply with the terms of YOUR insurance policy?  (Have you formally agreed to comply with agent's insurance policy terms?)  Have they seen the policy and all conditions?  (I'm a landlord: - including in Scotland - None of my agents had...).  

Your insurance policy.  Your responsibility, surely.

When you asked Scottish association of landlords what did they say please?

Great Calcutta cup result!

The insurance is my responsibility yes. The property could have burned down and insurance would have been invalid because the agent did not tell me the property was unoccupied for more than 31 days.