UKPC / DCB Legal - Letter of Claim - Incorrectly identified as driver

Sola1

Hi all,

I received a Letter of Claim from DCB Legal on 16 January 2023, which relates to a PCN issued by UKPC in December 2018. The reason for the PCN is ‘Vehicle owner/driver left site’.

The site in question is Stevenage Leisure Park (SLP), which offers free parking. Drivers are not, however, permitted to leave the park on foot.

For context, I stayed in Hertfordshire during November & December 2018, and used a friend’s vehicle on an ad-hoc basis. Said friend continued to use their vehicle during this period. I was insured for the duration of both months, and paid a cash sum at the beginning of November to have access to the vehicle.

The key detail is that I did not visit SLP on any occasion whilst in Hertfordshire and was not therefore the driver on 19/12/2018. It has since transpired that the owner of the vehicle referred UKPC to me upon receipt of the PCN - presumably to avoid paying the penalty that they had incurred.

Rather foolishly, I ignored all correspondence received in relation to the PCN, as I was aware that I had not visited SLP on any occasion and assumed that the issue would ‘go away’. I was not able to resolve this situation with the owner of the vehicle at the time (they ceased communication with me shortly after December 2018) and am still not able to contact them.

Per the Newbies thread, I sent a SAR to UKPC shortly after receiving the Letter of Claim, requesting:

• All photos taken of the Vehicle
• All letters/emails that you have sent & received, including any appeal correspondence
• All data that you hold on me
• All evidence that you will rely on in court, including...
• 1) Evidence that I was the owner/driver of the Vehicle on the date of the alleged contravention
• 2) Evidence that the owner/driver of the Vehicle left the site on the date of the alleged contravention
• 3) Evidence that the Terms of Parking were displayed on a sign on the date of the alleged contravention
• A full copy of the PCN & Notice To Keeper
• A list of all outstanding PCNs against me

In response, UKPC provided pictures of the vehicle & signage on the date of the alleged contravention, as well as copies of correspondence issued to me. When I requested that they properly address 2) and 3) above, they responded with:

Please be advised that we were informed by the registered keeper of the vehicle that you were the driver of the vehicle on the day of the parking event. You did not write to protest this or the parking charge event when notices were sent to you. All personal data has already been provided to you.

Per the Newbies thread, I also emailed DCB Legal, informing them of the SAR and that I was seeking debt advice, and querying their legal authority to add £60 to the claim. They responded with:

In accordance with the appeal decision made on 29th July 2020 in Britannia Parking Group Ltd v Semark-Julien [2020] EW Mis 12 (CC), it is not correct to propose this claim should be struck out as an ‘abuse of process’ due to the contractual costs claimed. You may wish to seek independent legal advice to access up to date information.

For the purpose of clarity the Parking Charge Notice was issued due to Vehicle Owner/Driver left the site. Our Client were provided details which nominated yourself as the driver of the vehicle on the day of the contravention. The PCN was affixed on the day which would have provided you with 28 days to lodge an appeal. Given that the case has now been passed to this firm for recovery action the time frame to appeal has now lapsed and the right to appeal has been lost.

I need some advice on my next steps please. I am conscious of the following:

• As my use of the vehicle was arranged on an informal basis, I assume the only evidence of me being the driver on the date of the alleged contravention is a (false) statement from the owner and possibly a copy of my temporary car insurance certificate.
• Equally, UKPC have not provided any evidence of the driver leaving SLP, although I wonder if this is because they are not obliged to under a SAR?
• There is no 30-day deadline on the Letter of Claim.

Thanks in advance.

KeithP

I can't see anywhere that you have told UKPC that you were not the driver.
Have you done that? If not, why not?

Apart from that, it looks like a debt collectors letter that you have received.
The fourth post of the NEWBIES thread explains exactly how to deal with debt collectors letters.

B789

As you yourself point out... what evidence do they have that you (or anyone else for that matter) left the car park? Assuming, but highly unlikely, they have "evidence" of "someone" leaving the car park, how can they prove it is you?

If it ever goes to court, you can deny being the driver. It won't matter as the PPC will have to produce evidence to prove their case. I'd place money on the fact that, even if they start proceedings, they will never go as far as letting this get in front of a judge as they will be in for a spanking.

Just think about it... the PPC could stipulate in their Ts & Cs that a driver caught picking their nose would be in breach of those Ts & Cs and liable to an invoice for £100. They are just scammers fishing for the gullible who are likely to pay up out of ignorance.

fisherjim

It's simple if your weren't there they cannot have any evidence you left site, also, why on earth you have taken the time to write to a dope of a debt collector but never told the idiots at UKPC that your (ex) friend was lying and you were not the driver.

There is to my memory only one case like this that ever went to court referred to in parking circles as "The toothbrush case" I don't think any PPC has dared to risk bringing one of these add on scamming clauses to court since.

patient_dream

fisherjim said:

It's simple if your weren't there they cannot have any evidence you left site, also, why on earth you have taken the time to write to a dope of a debt collector but never told the idiots at UKPC that your (ex) friend was lying and you were not the driver.

There is to my memory only one case like this that ever went to court referred to in parking circles as "The toothbrush case" I don't think any PPC has dared to risk bringing one of these add on scamming clauses to court since.

What a good memory.  I know that case was on the Parking Prankster site but cannot find it.

Yes, the Judge said to the lady rep "bring a toothbrush next time"
It was indeed a totally crap case .... just like all the UKPC cases and especially the "driver left site" junk

One must assume that DCBL has a good supply of toothbrushes ??

1505grandad

VCS v Ibbotson

Coupon-mad

But it is out of date (pre-Beavis) and never was a precedent.  Forget it.

Sola1

Hi all,

Thanks for your responses.

A copy of the letter that I received is below.

I submitted a SAR etc. because elsewhere on the forum, for another case where a LoC was received from DCB Legal, the advice was:

"Treat it as a legitimate and real LBC and do what the second post of the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum tells you to do , which is the same as everyone else who came here with one

Yes you can expect a court claim"

Hence my hesitance on the next steps. I haven't denied being the Driver since receiving this correspondence, as I thought I had missed the opportunity to appeal this point...

Some clarity on which post of the Newbies thread is applicable would be appreciated.

Typo below - I requested that UKPC properly address 1) and 2). Predictably, there were not able to.

Per the Newbies thread, I sent a SAR to UKPC shortly after receiving the Letter of Claim, requesting:

• All photos taken of the Vehicle
• All letters/emails that you have sent & received, including any appeal correspondence
• All data that you hold on me
• All evidence that you will rely on in court, including...
• 1) Evidence that I was the owner/driver of the Vehicle on the date of the alleged contravention
• 2) Evidence that the owner/driver of the Vehicle left the site on the date of the alleged contravention
• 3) Evidence that the Terms of Parking were displayed on a sign on the date of the alleged contravention
• A full copy of the PCN & Notice To Keeper
• A list of all outstanding PCNs against me

In response, UKPC provided pictures of the vehicle & signage on the date of the alleged contravention, as well as copies of correspondence issued to me. When I requested that they properly address 2) and 3) above, they responded with:

Coupon-mad

Hence my hesitance on the next steps. I haven't denied being the Driver since receiving this correspondence, as I thought I had missed the opportunity to appeal this point...

Appeal is too late, yes.

DISPUTE is NOT TOO LATE and perfectly normal at LBC stage.

Of course you respond robustly to DCBLegal's LoC now, which anyone would do.  There doesn't need to be a section telling people that they can and should dispute at LoC stage (the NEWBIES thread is long enough already).  Email them - like everyone does here - and tear into the lack of evidence!

You need to spell out that the keeper is mistaken.  You were not the driver (explain how you know).  Ask for the evidence photos of the driver 'leaving the site' to assist you to identify who the driver actually was and that the alleged breach took place.  Give them 30 days to supply that evidence.


OR (alternative approach):

Have an urgent chat with your friend and agree that you are best placed to defend this and if you lose, he pays.  Depends on your relationship with your friend but this Claim will be almost impossible for a Defendant NOT to win!

They have no evidence.  There will be no photos of the driver leaving the site!

Umkomaas

You should be able to access all photos via UKPC's website, login as if to pay (obv don't!) and check. However, they might have removed them now it's in DCB Legal's hands, but unless you try, you'll never know. 

But as this is a UKPC/DCB Legal claim, do have a read of the following thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1

Coupon-mad

Here's what will happen:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79838394/#Comment_79838394