Refund for a faulty phone (new phone).

Aylesbury_Duck

DullGreyGuy said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

dargiejg said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Does the phone now work?  If so, why do you want to return it?

With hindsight, you needed advice when it was first faulty, and before sending it for repair.  I may be wrong, but having agreed that they can repair it, and assuming they have repaired it satisfactorily, it's no longer faulty and therefore you have no right of return for a refund.

Having recieved the repaired phone and tried using it, it doesn't meet my needs as well I hoped it would. It's a dumb phone with excellent better battery life and limited smart features, but not supporting multiple email accounts sufficiently well is a handicap for it.

Also, after two weeks silence I really needed to be getting access to messages so then had my previously broken smartphone replaced via insurance cover (and excess payment).

I see.  Had it not been broken, you would have tried returning it under your 14 day right to return an online purchase, I guess.  There are a couple of potential pitfalls there.  1. I really don't know if the "clock stopped" on the 14 days (you're now on something like day three of ownership), someone with better knowledge of consumer law might be able to answer that one, but 2. even if you're still within the 14 days (because the clock stopped whilst it was being repaired), using the phone, registering email accounts, etc. would be more handling than you could do in a physical store, so the retailer might now say you're not entitled to a full refund, anyway.  It's no longer a phone that can be sold full price to someone else.

There is nothing in the CCR about a stop the clock clause... as the item was faulty in the first 30 days the OP had the option to reject the goods under the CRA which would be the prudent thing to do having not been able to test the device worked as hoped. 

I'd agreed with others having accepted a repair they can no longer reject the goods as faulty. The 14 days afforded to them under the CCR has lapsed. The only route for rejection would either be 1) if the goods develop a new fault or 2) they can argue the goods do not conform to contract but saying it doesnt handle multiple email accounts well enough feels a long shot at that.

Agreed, but that ship has sailed.

dargiejg

Aylesbury_Duck said:

dargiejg said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Does the phone now work?  If so, why do you want to return it?

With hindsight, you needed advice when it was first faulty, and before sending it for repair.  I may be wrong, but having agreed that they can repair it, and assuming they have repaired it satisfactorily, it's no longer faulty and therefore you have no right of return for a refund.

Having recieved the repaired phone and tried using it, it doesn't meet my needs as well I hoped it would. It's a dumb phone with excellent better battery life and limited smart features, but not supporting multiple email accounts sufficiently well is a handicap for it.

Also, after two weeks silence I really needed to be getting access to messages so then had my previously broken smartphone replaced via insurance cover (and excess payment).

I see.  Had it not been broken, you would have tried returning it under your 14 day right to return an online purchase, I guess.  There are a couple of potential pitfalls there.  1. I really don't know if the "clock stopped" on the 14 days (you're now on something like day three of ownership), someone with better knowledge of consumer law might be able to answer that one, but 2. even if you're still within the 14 days (because the clock stopped whilst it was being repaired), using the phone, registering email accounts, etc. would be more handling than you could do in a physical store, so the retailer might now say you're not entitled to a full refund, anyway.  It's no longer a phone that can be sold full price to someone else.

Since I'm not allowed to return it (not yet anyway) I've unboxed the phone and tried again to set up the mail account that I couldn't add before.

The problem was nothing to do with multiple accounts because this time (after a phone reset) I was only trying the one particularly mail account I failed to add previously. It's a Microsoft 365 mail account with ActiveSync (Exchange) or IMAP capabilities which work with all other mail clients I've ever used.

I just can't get this Nokia 800 Tough to add this account using either ActiveSync or IMAP+SMTP after trying half a dozen times with both account types. I haven't yet asked for technical support from Nokia to find out if this is a deprecated or unsupported capability of the phone.

The User Guide (online at www.nokia.com/phones/en_gb/support/nokia-800-user-guide/mail) is on the simple side without any full examples and not even a mention about the different Account Type settings.

Grumpy_chap

dargiejg said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Which retailer is this?

Nokia. (Headquartered in Finland)

This is important - was the phone ordered directly from Nokia in Finland via an online service?
All the answers provided above in this thread assume that UK consumer law applies, but if the purchase is under Finnish law, the entitlements may be entirely different.

I have to be honest, I was not aware that it was possible to buy a Nokia phone direct from Nokia in Finland.  It may be a new service that has been offered as there was another recent thread with an issue (though it seems entirely different circumstances and issue than this) on a phone purchased direct from Nokia.  I have linked the thread for reference, though it seems to have little relevance:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6418784/hmd-nokia-refusing-refund

dargiejg

Grumpy_chap said:

dargiejg said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Which retailer is this?

Nokia. (Headquartered in Finland)

This is important - was the phone ordered directly from Nokia in Finland via an online service?
All the answers provided above in this thread assume that UK consumer law applies, but if the purchase is under Finnish law, the entitlements may be entirely different.

I have to be honest, I was not aware that it was possible to buy a Nokia phone direct from Nokia in Finland.  It may be a new service that has been offered as there was another recent thread with an issue (though it seems entirely different circumstances and issue than this) on a phone purchased direct from Nokia.  I have linked the thread for reference, though it seems to have little relevance:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6418784/hmd-nokia-refusing-refund

Yes, I ordered directly from nokia.com but they do have a UK specific set of seller terms. "HMD GLOBAL UK TERMS OF SALE" are at www.nokia.com/phones/en_gb/seller-terms.

The "Returns policy" includes several relevent sections:

30-day right to return.
You have the right to return your Product(s) within 30 days of the date on which you, or a person indicated by you, have or has received the Product(s). 

In this section there is no reference to the phone being working, defective or repaired.

Defective products.
If you suspect that the Products you have purchased from us are defective, please notify us within 30 days as described below. HMD Global reserves the right to inspect all suspected defects and verify them. In the event that your Products turn out to be defective later than 30 days from the date the Products were received, please contact us immediately via the contact channels listed below.

So this is why they insisted I couldn't simply return it immediately but I had to send it to their repair centre (Hungary) to be inspected and repaired.

What I can't find is anything there (or in the remaining terms) which says whether I do or don't have a right to return once they have done their inspection and repair that they insist on.

tightauldgit

If they actually told you that you couldn't return it then that's wrong - you absolutely could have rejected the item and returned it for a refund. 

Given where we are now then looking at the email they've sent you it only appears to 'suggest' that you send it for a repair so I'm not sure if that would be enough to constitute having refused your right to return it but certainly worth a try.

If you don't want the phone and it doesn't meet your needs then I would write a complaint to Nokia setting out the full story and hopefully they will help you out. I'm a bit surprised a company like Nokia is nickel and diming you over this so it may just be that someone with authority needs to step in and sort it.  

dargiejg

tightauldgit said:

If they actually told you that you couldn't return it then that's wrong - you absolutely could have rejected the item and returned it for a refund. 

Given where we are now then looking at the email they've sent you it only appears to 'suggest' that you send it for a repair so I'm not sure if that would be enough to constitute having refused your right to return it but certainly worth a try.

If you don't want the phone and it doesn't meet your needs then I would write a complaint to Nokia setting out the full story and hopefully they will help you out. I'm a bit surprised a company like Nokia is nickel and diming you over this so it may just be that someone with authority needs to step in and sort it.  

Every request I've made to get copies of the live chat transcripts have been ignored up to now.
Sadly they were where I was explicitly told I couldn't get a refund for a faulty phone before it got sent off to the repair centre.
The followup emails are more vague unfortunately.

I've asked for someone with authority to get in touch (ideally by talking directly on the phone) but I continue simply getting responses by individuals without looking at the full picture.

Jumblebumble

dargiejg said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

dargiejg said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Does the phone now work?  If so, why do you want to return it?

With hindsight, you needed advice when it was first faulty, and before sending it for repair.  I may be wrong, but having agreed that they can repair it, and assuming they have repaired it satisfactorily, it's no longer faulty and therefore you have no right of return for a refund.

Having recieved the repaired phone and tried using it, it doesn't meet my needs as well I hoped it would. It's a dumb phone with excellent better battery life and limited smart features, but not supporting multiple email accounts sufficiently well is a handicap for it.

Also, after two weeks silence I really needed to be getting access to messages so then had my previously broken smartphone replaced via insurance cover (and excess payment).

I see.  Had it not been broken, you would have tried returning it under your 14 day right to return an online purchase, I guess.  There are a couple of potential pitfalls there.  1. I really don't know if the "clock stopped" on the 14 days (you're now on something like day three of ownership), someone with better knowledge of consumer law might be able to answer that one, but 2. even if you're still within the 14 days (because the clock stopped whilst it was being repaired), using the phone, registering email accounts, etc. would be more handling than you could do in a physical store, so the retailer might now say you're not entitled to a full refund, anyway.  It's no longer a phone that can be sold full price to someone else.

Since I'm not allowed to return it (not yet anyway) I've unboxed the phone and tried again to set up the mail account that I couldn't add before.

The problem was nothing to do with multiple accounts because this time (after a phone reset) I was only trying the one particularly mail account I failed to add previously. It's a Microsoft 365 mail account with ActiveSync (Exchange) or IMAP capabilities which work with all other mail clients I've ever used.

I just can't get this Nokia 800 Tough to add this account using either ActiveSync or IMAP+SMTP after trying half a dozen times with both account types. I haven't yet asked for technical support from Nokia to find out if this is a deprecated or unsupported capability of the phone.

The User Guide (online at www.nokia.com/phones/en_gb/support/nokia-800-user-guide/mail) is on the simple side without any full examples and not even a mention about the different Account Type settings.

I find it extraordinary that a new phone wont work with M365
Have you checked that you do not have too many legacy devices registered as I believe exchange on activ sync still refuses to add more than 10
https://exchangepedia.com/2012/12/remove-a-mobile-phone-from-your-exchange-account.html

dargiejg

Jumblebumble said:

dargiejg said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

dargiejg said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Does the phone now work?  If so, why do you want to return it?

With hindsight, you needed advice when it was first faulty, and before sending it for repair.  I may be wrong, but having agreed that they can repair it, and assuming they have repaired it satisfactorily, it's no longer faulty and therefore you have no right of return for a refund.

Having recieved the repaired phone and tried using it, it doesn't meet my needs as well I hoped it would. It's a dumb phone with excellent better battery life and limited smart features, but not supporting multiple email accounts sufficiently well is a handicap for it.

Also, after two weeks silence I really needed to be getting access to messages so then had my previously broken smartphone replaced via insurance cover (and excess payment).

I see.  Had it not been broken, you would have tried returning it under your 14 day right to return an online purchase, I guess.  There are a couple of potential pitfalls there.  1. I really don't know if the "clock stopped" on the 14 days (you're now on something like day three of ownership), someone with better knowledge of consumer law might be able to answer that one, but 2. even if you're still within the 14 days (because the clock stopped whilst it was being repaired), using the phone, registering email accounts, etc. would be more handling than you could do in a physical store, so the retailer might now say you're not entitled to a full refund, anyway.  It's no longer a phone that can be sold full price to someone else.

Since I'm not allowed to return it (not yet anyway) I've unboxed the phone and tried again to set up the mail account that I couldn't add before.

The problem was nothing to do with multiple accounts because this time (after a phone reset) I was only trying the one particularly mail account I failed to add previously. It's a Microsoft 365 mail account with ActiveSync (Exchange) or IMAP capabilities which work with all other mail clients I've ever used.

I just can't get this Nokia 800 Tough to add this account using either ActiveSync or IMAP+SMTP after trying half a dozen times with both account types. I haven't yet asked for technical support from Nokia to find out if this is a deprecated or unsupported capability of the phone.

The User Guide (online at www.nokia.com/phones/en_gb/support/nokia-800-user-guide/mail) is on the simple side without any full examples and not even a mention about the different Account Type settings.

I find it extraordinary that a new phone wont work with M365
Have you checked that you do not have too many legacy devices registered as I believe exchange on activ sync still refuses to add more than 10

I've removed all my previous Activesync devices from two different mail accounts.

No problems re-adding them to an iPad mini 3 (2014).

No not trying to add them to the Nokia 800 Tough (2019).

Unable to add them:
a) Supplying username and password and trusting to autodiscovery.
b) Advanced -> ActiveSync and full details.
c) Advanced -> IMAP+SMTP and full details. 
I've emailed for help but it's just over if several emails I haven't had any answer for at the moment. 

If/when I have a couple of hours free I'll try their live chat with this matter.

Anyway, this tech discussion is getting off the topic about the conflict of not being able to return a phone for refund which arrived faulty.

MikeJXE

I won't ask. It's obviously not an iPhone 

dargiejg

MikeJXE said:

I won't ask. It's obviously not an iPhone 

It's not. With a chronic health condition that makes me faint sometimes I consequentially break phones roughly every year or two which gets costly and frustrating. This time round I looked for a non-smartphone that would be more resilient with a battery life of many days at a time (don't try camping off-grid for a week with a single-charge iPhone) but still having some online functionality such as email access and mobile hot-spot provision.

I'm not personally an Apple fan but for people with sufficient funds and happy with Apple restrictions then, sure, an iPhone can be a good solution. Breaking the screen once on an iPhone once made me realise it was more affordable for me to go with mid-range smartphones where the cost of a new phone every two years was significantly less than the repair cost for the iPhone.