Council and Care Home Fees Query

msb1234

Savvy_Sue said:

Plasticomo said:

We cant get a disabled taxi for love nor money at the moment and we had to hire a mini bus at 180 quid to get mum to the funeral.

I don't know where you are, but in London the care home pointed out that all taxis have to be able to take a wheelchair. And MiL has special vouchers, from the local authority, to get a discount when using ComCabs. They seem to exist in other parts of the country - you may have tried this possibility though but worth mentioning it for others. 

Having said that, on one occasion when we pre-booked one, the text messages swung from "your driver is on his way but running late" to "we're trying to find a driver for you", and eventually we gave up. 

There is a company which will hire vehicles which will take a wheelchair: we looked into it for the Christmas period but for the amount of use we wanted to make of it, it wasn't the answer.

Pre-paying for a funeral is absolutely allowed: it's explicitly set out as one of the things you can do which won't be seen as deprivation of assets. 

My stepfather is in a home. When completing the financial assessment, the information we received from the Council said the opposite. He could not prepay a funeral as a means of reducing his savings. 

This does make sense, because once someone’s savings reduce to below £14,250, they cease to contribute towards their care from their savings. So however much money they started with, when they eventually die there will be more than enough money left to pay for their funeral. 

Having done a quick search, the advice seems to be that in considering whether buying a pre paid funeral plan can be seen as deprivation of assets, the ‘test’ depends on when it was purchased.  I’d be interested to see where your information came from. 

tooldle

Your LA should have a maintained list of all designated wheelchair accessible taxis. As for a copy.  Here is the statutory guidance Access to taxis and private hire vehicles for disabled users - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk). I can't see the purchase of a vehicle being in your mum's financial best interests. Aside from the capital cost, there are the ongoing costs to consider. Unless she plans to be out and about all day everyday, it would likely present poor value. That said, if mum is self funding and not likely to need the tax payer to cover her costs at any point, she can do as she wishes with her money, assuming she is competent to make such a decision.

Savvy_Sue

msb1234 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Pre-paying for a funeral is absolutely allowed: it's explicitly set out as one of the things you can do which won't be seen as deprivation of assets. 

My stepfather is in a home. When completing the financial assessment, the information we received from the Council said the opposite. He could not prepay a funeral as a means of reducing his savings. 

This does make sense, because once someone’s savings reduce to below £14,250, they cease to contribute towards their care from their savings. So however much money they started with, when they eventually die there will be more than enough money left to pay for their funeral. 

Having done a quick search, the advice seems to be that in considering whether buying a pre paid funeral plan can be seen as deprivation of assets, the ‘test’ depends on when it was purchased.  I’d be interested to see where your information came from. 

Well, I may have misled you, but I thought it was one of those things which it was 'allowed' to do without leading to Deprivation claims, and a quick google mostly supports that view, but not completely. 

Keep_pedalling

Savvy_Sue said:

msb1234 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Pre-paying for a funeral is absolutely allowed: it's explicitly set out as one of the things you can do which won't be seen as deprivation of assets. 

My stepfather is in a home. When completing the financial assessment, the information we received from the Council said the opposite. He could not prepay a funeral as a means of reducing his savings. 

This does make sense, because once someone’s savings reduce to below £14,250, they cease to contribute towards their care from their savings. So however much money they started with, when they eventually die there will be more than enough money left to pay for their funeral. 

Having done a quick search, the advice seems to be that in considering whether buying a pre paid funeral plan can be seen as deprivation of assets, the ‘test’ depends on when it was purchased.  I’d be interested to see where your information came from. 

Well, I may have misled you, but I thought it was one of those things which it was 'allowed' to do without leading to Deprivation claims, and a quick google mostly supports that view, but not completely. 

The principle behind deprivation of assets is based around intention, and in this case the OP seems to be searching for ways to reduce assets for the sole intention of reducing how much she has to self fund so I think buying a funeral plan at this stage is likely to classed as DDoA. Whether a LA would pursue it or not is another matter. 

elsien

p00hsticks said:

Plasticomo said:

My dad passed away mid November. My mum is in a care home and the estate is in probate at the moment Just over three months prior he changed the status of ownership for his house to tenants in common.  Hopefully that will go through ok without being challenged.

You refer to 'his' house - do you mean it was previously owned by your mother and father as joint tenants ?

Who did your father leave his estate to in his will ?

Plasticomo said:

 My mum now has to meet the cost of her care home from her half of the fees from early February.

Do you think that she will be able to meet the full cost of the care home for the foreseeable future from that share ? If so,  then the Local Authority won't be interested in what she does with the money. It;'s only if she spends or gives it away so much that she is no longer able to pay for her own care and needs to be funded by the Local Authority that 'deprivation of assets' will be considered. It sounds as if you think that that may be the case...

Plasticomo said:

We cant get a disabled taxi for love nor money at the moment and we had to hire a mini bus at 180 quid to get mum to the funeral. What I want to know is, are we allowed to purchase a disabled access vehicle for her from her money so that she can be taken for days out or will this be seen as deprivation of assets.

Have you tried asking the care home whether they have such a vehicle that you could hire or borrow ? They must have to take residents for medical treatment etc so I would expect to either own such a vehicley or know where you could hire one from.

£180 seems a lot of money, for a one off, but may be more cost-effective than actually buying a vehicle and having to pay for MOT, servicing, insurance etc.... have you done the sums ?

I visit a lot of care homes for my job. None of them have their own transport. Anyone needing to go to appointment either family takes them or if it’s a hospital appointment and they have no one, the care book the hospital transport or a taxi which the resident pays for. 

diystarter7

msb1234 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Plasticomo said:

We cant get a disabled taxi for love nor money at the moment and we had to hire a mini bus at 180 quid to get mum to the funeral.

I don't know where you are, but in London the care home pointed out that all taxis have to be able to take a wheelchair. And MiL has special vouchers, from the local authority, to get a discount when using ComCabs. They seem to exist in other parts of the country - you may have tried this possibility though but worth mentioning it for others. 

Having said that, on one occasion when we pre-booked one, the text messages swung from "your driver is on his way but running late" to "we're trying to find a driver for you", and eventually we gave up. 

There is a company which will hire vehicles which will take a wheelchair: we looked into it for the Christmas period but for the amount of use we wanted to make of it, it wasn't the answer.

Pre-paying for a funeral is absolutely allowed: it's explicitly set out as one of the things you can do which won't be seen as deprivation of assets. 

My stepfather is in a home. When completing the financial assessment, the information we received from the Council said the opposite. He could not prepay a funeral as a means of reducing his savings. 

This does make sense, because once someone’s savings reduce to below £14,250, they cease to contribute towards their care from their savings. So however much money they started with, when they eventually die there will be more than enough money left to pay for their funeral. 

Having done a quick search, the advice seems to be that in considering whether buying a pre paid funeral plan can be seen as deprivation of assets, the ‘test’ depends on when it was purchased.  I’d be interested to see where your information came from. 

Hello

The highlighted bit, that in reality is the test for almost everything of substantila worth ie the "test"

People worry about gifting money etc and when I worked at the coucil a friend that did care management assessments and I am not sure if they were experts in deprivation of assets, theytold me and which I've read many times on the net - the test is whether you were aware that you'd end up in a nursing home etc.

EG - Joe Redutf aged 70 - gives away 700k, ie almost everything he owns transfers name - What is not considered deprivation of assets?

If you were fit and healthy, and could not have imagined needing care and support at the time, then it may not count as deprivation of assets.   The highlighted bit 'may not' so its open to interpretation

Most people will have some medical condition but live on for years never needing nursing care ie they are able to walk and do their own activies of daily living without or too much support etc.

I've spoken to people in their older years about gifting money and them worrying about deprivation of assests but IMO, if you are moving about and no real indication you will end up in a nursing home, I guess the asseors will have a hard time proving this.

When in a nursing home and paying xxx amount for a funeral plan IMHO is clearly a deprivation of assests simple as taht EG -
you spend  xxx amount that drops your savinngs below the amount where you qualify, waht else can you call it other than deprevation of assets?   
Thanks

diystarter7

Re hospital appointments.

no car/van to loan but take taxi, or arrange via hospital ambulance or care home arranges etc and possibly ask if you can go with them or make your own way there.

Thanks

diystarter7

Plasticomo said:

My dad passed away mid November. My mum is in a care home and the estate is in probate at the moment Just over three months prior he changed the status of ownership for his house to tenants in common.  Hopefully that will go through ok without being challenged. My mum now has to meet the cost of her care home from her half of the fees from early February.

We cant get a disabled taxi for love nor money at the moment and we had to hire a mini bus at 180 quid to get mum to the funeral. What I want to know is, are we allowed to purchase a disabled access vehicle for her from her money so that she can be taken for days out or will this be seen as deprivation of assets. She is mentally alert although power of attorney is in place if needed. She is just physically not able to stand. She is also asking if she can give some to us. I know this can be done within the normal tax year (about £3,000?) but again would this be seen as disposal of assets or allowed within the same tax rules. She has mentioned paying for her funeral up front. Would this also be allowed do you think?

OP
Sorry about that
Please call the coucil and and ask to speak with the duty care manager that spealises in care homes and have a little chat with them re deprevation of assests etc - and or after that send a concise email re your questions I am sure they will help

Good luck

elsien

diystarter7 said:

Plasticomo said:

My dad passed away mid November. My mum is in a care home and the estate is in probate at the moment Just over three months prior he changed the status of ownership for his house to tenants in common.  Hopefully that will go through ok without being challenged. My mum now has to meet the cost of her care home from her half of the fees from early February.

We cant get a disabled taxi for love nor money at the moment and we had to hire a mini bus at 180 quid to get mum to the funeral. What I want to know is, are we allowed to purchase a disabled access vehicle for her from her money so that she can be taken for days out or will this be seen as deprivation of assets. She is mentally alert although power of attorney is in place if needed. She is just physically not able to stand. She is also asking if she can give some to us. I know this can be done within the normal tax year (about £3,000?) but again would this be seen as disposal of assets or allowed within the same tax rules. She has mentioned paying for her funeral up front. Would this also be allowed do you think?

OP
Sorry about that
Please call the coucil and and ask to speak with the duty care manager that spealises in care homes and have a little chat with them re deprevation of assests etc - and or after that send a concise email re your questions I am sure they will help

Good luck

A care manager won’t answer that question. Care Act needs assessments are intended to be done so that the assessment is completed before the financial assessment so that the needs assessment isn’t influenced by what people can or can’t pay.

Assessments and financial assessments are two different departments. 

p00hsticks

elsien said:

I visit a lot of care homes for my job. None of them have their own transport. Anyone needing to go to appointment either family takes them or if it’s a hospital appointment and they have no one, the care book the hospital transport or a taxi which the resident pays for. 

That's a shame. Before her death seven years ago my MIL was in a care home (funded by the Local authority) and they certainly had a specially adapted minibus with a wheel-chair accessible lift at the back that they used to take residents out on day trips, shopping expeditions, theatre visits etc.