Defence help please - Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space

horizoncrush

Hi guys,

I have been reading over the forum for the last few weeks, but I can't seem to find many related posts to my particular incident.

A quick overview.

The issue date was 29/12/2022 and the AoS was received 13/01/2023.

Is the defence due by 14 days from 13th? so 27th Jan, or later?

This happened in a retail park.

The whole wheel was over the right white line of the bay. I do have a picture if that would help. A bit silly but I didn't know parking out of the bay was a problem if I'm honest. It was a new car that is very large compared to what I have previously driven and had only just got it so I was a bit concerned about people knocking it. It's over 20 years old mind.

I don't expect you to write it for me! but any help would be greatly appreciated with part 2 and 3 of the defence letter

This is with DCBL/UKpc

Thanks v much!!

horizoncrush

The bay markings were all plain as day and not faded and in hindsight, it was obvious and silly, but the driver was unaware parking over the lines was an 'offence'

Would signage being too out of the way to see, and small text, be the correct defence?

As genuinely did not know about the contract we bind into by parking at private retail parks.

cheers

horizoncrush

Sorry about the mulitple posts. I couldn't see an edit button for above!

I realise my initial post was rather vague so below is a draft of a defence!!

What do you think?

I think I have covered everything but I'm sure a few bits would be better off removed!

Thanks in advance!

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question.

3. The Defendant was using the store at this retail park in the run up to Christmas. The Defendant visited the store to check a price as they had just purchased gifts at the same store the other side of the city but at a different branch. The Defendant was inside for no more than 3 minutes.

The Defendant did notice parking wardens walking across the car park toward the general area of the vehicle in question, whilst walking into the store, but later expressed concern that they did not advise that parking over the marked bay was an offense. As the Defendant was inside for such a short time, and returned to a notice on the window, it was obvious they were headed directly to the vehicle in question. This behaviour was predatory rather than enforcing parking contraventions as the parking wardens would have seen the Defendant, just as how the Defendant saw them. The Defendant did not realise there was a contract in place for parking, as the signs were not near where the vehicle was parked, and not near the store entrance. The entire path from bay to shopfront made no signs clear to see.

Upon finding a sign referring to the contract, the wording was small, and featured a large amount of text which is deliberately confusing to the reader.

The Defendant chose to park in this manner as they had recently acquired the vehicle in question, which has been far larger than anything previously kept. The Defendant was not yet used to the large size and was concerned of somebody knocking the bodywork as the bays are best suited to smaller cars. As the vehicle in question is over 20 years old, it is not particularly new or modern, but took considerable work and effort to be afforded and the Defendant took pride in acquiring the new vehicle and wanted to look after it the best he could.

Coupon-mad

Remove these bits entirely (too much info):

"The Defendant did notice parking wardens walking across the car park toward the general area of the vehicle in question, whilst walking into the store, but later expressed concern that they did not advise that parking over the marked bay was an offense. As the Defendant was inside for such a short time, and returned to a notice on the window, it was obvious they were headed directly to the vehicle in question. This behaviour was predatory rather than enforcing parking contraventions as the parking wardens would have seen the Defendant, just as how the Defendant saw them. "

and:

"
The Defendant chose to park in this manner as they had recently acquired the vehicle in question, which has been far larger than anything previously kept. The Defendant was not yet used to the large size and was concerned of somebody knocking the bodywork as the bays are best suited to smaller cars. As the vehicle in question is over 20 years old, it is not particularly new or modern, but took considerable work and effort to be afforded and the Defendant took pride in acquiring the new vehicle and wanted to look after it the best he could."

Umkomaas

I thought I'd draw your attention to this fairly recent thread which you might have not yet seen. You must keep going through all the necessary court procedure phases, but the hope is that your case will follow the same pattern as all those detailed in the thread. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1,

KeithP

horizoncrush said:

The issue date was 29/12/2022 and the AoS was received 13/01/2023.

Is the defence due by 14 days from 13th? so 27th Jan, or later?

With a Claim Issue Date of 29th December, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 31st January 2023 to file your Defence.

That's a little over a week away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence and it is good to see that you are not leaving it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

B789

Was the PCN POFA compliant? Which PPC? Which car park? Can you post a copy of the original PCN? Can you post a photo of the signs at the location?

horizoncrush

Coupon-mad said:

Remove these bits entirely (too much info):

"The Defendant did notice parking wardens walking across the car park toward the general area of the vehicle in question, whilst walking into the store, but later expressed concern that they did not advise that parking over the marked bay was an offense. As the Defendant was inside for such a short time, and returned to a notice on the window, it was obvious they were headed directly to the vehicle in question. This behaviour was predatory rather than enforcing parking contraventions as the parking wardens would have seen the Defendant, just as how the Defendant saw them. "

and:

"
The Defendant chose to park in this manner as they had recently acquired the vehicle in question, which has been far larger than anything previously kept. The Defendant was not yet used to the large size and was concerned of somebody knocking the bodywork as the bays are best suited to smaller cars. As the vehicle in question is over 20 years old, it is not particularly new or modern, but took considerable work and effort to be afforded and the Defendant took pride in acquiring the new vehicle and wanted to look after it the best he could."

Thanks mate, will do. It was a bit whiney

Umkomaas said:

I thought I'd draw your attention to this fairly recent thread which you might have not yet seen. You must keep going through all the necessary court procedure phases, but the hope is that your case will follow the same pattern as all those detailed in the thread. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1,

Cheers mate!!

Gives me some hope!

KeithP said:

horizoncrush said:

The issue date was 29/12/2022 and the AoS was received 13/01/2023.

Is the defence due by 14 days from 13th? so 27th Jan, or later?

With a Claim Issue Date of 29th December, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 31st January 2023 to file your Defence.

That's a little over a week away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence and it is good to see that you are not leaving it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Cheers for the dates!

Lifesaver - I was a bit confused about the dates

B789 said:

Was the PCN POFA compliant? Which PPC? Which car park? Can you post a copy of the original PCN? Can you post a photo of the signs at the location?

I have tried having a fish for the original PCN. I don't believe I have it!

I do remember keeping it to one side so I will post here asap if I find it.

Sorry for the late reply!

1. I don't know if the PCN was POFA compliant

2. The car park was Cardiff Bay Retail Park

3. PPC was Uk Parking Control

Below is the sign from that day

horizoncrush

B789 said:

Was the PCN POFA compliant? Which PPC? Which car park? Can you post a copy of the original PCN? Can you post a photo of the signs at the location?

I knew I had it somewhere.

Attached below, will have a search on the forum and learn about the POFA. Thanks a lot!!

Blurred most of the personal bits out

**EDIT

I didn't notice the flash obscured quite a bit.

It says "Parking attendent No: xxxxx had reasonable cause to believe that the following breach of the terms and conditions of parking occured on private land (details of which were clearly and prominently displayed and agreed to by the act of parking the vehicle)

Coupon-mad

Please show us the first letter dated a month later.  The Notice to Keeper.

B789

That "ticket" isn't POFA compliant. However, if you have received a PoC for court, then they must have obtained the RK details through the DVLA. That means that they should have issued an NtK and that would show whether they are POFA compliant.

Have you sent an SAR to the PPCs DPO?