New National Analysis on E7 Price Increase - Ave 7.6%

dunstonh

Averages by definition are limitted in their meaningfulness, but remain useful as an indicator. They don't pretend to represent a single person or single sample.
Just because your saving does not match, doesn't make it either invalid or meaningless.

In fact potentially cases like yours even reduces the average.  As you are now saving on your bills.

Just like figures posted for E7 increases with other suppliers - above that average, don't make it invalid.

I understand all that and agree with it.   However, the way the article has focused on average, when statistically, the chances of the person reading being average are tiny, and it didn't cover the options leaving a lot to be desired.  It totally focuses on the negative, which of course the media usually does.  However, an article like that on the BBC should be better than that.   

They didn't get an expert in who could have said that woman was only using 5% off peak and therefore an economy 7 tariff was not suitable for her, and never has been.   Or that she was using 25% off peak and her current supplier needs x% to be viable on off peak and that switching to another supplier but remaining on E7 was best for her.

People reading that article who don't understand pricing models/target markets etc will automatically jump to "rip off" or I'm losing out mood without actually doing anything about it or moving to single rate when better options may exist.

EssexHebridean

pensionpawn said:

dunstonh said:

I think you might be missing the point. Historically the ratio was more like 70:30, or even 80:20 decades ago. The point being that historically these "currently frustrated" E7 customers were on a suitable tariff for their usage profile in the past. 

In 2022, you could get as low as 10% night use to be better on E7 with a certain supplier but 20% upwards was more typical.

Some suppliers have certainly pushed their pricing to favour those with much higher night ratios. However, that suggests the market is more efficient than single price as it still provides choice.

. You're not wrong that the E7 tariff is inappropriate for them now, that isn't being contended. So what is the impact of the changing E7 ratio, well it's migration to the single tariff and an increasing daytime demand on the grid / energy generators during an energy crisis. Surely not what Ofgen should be encouraging?

E7 may still be appropriate.  Just not the E7 supplier they are using.  If one has a business model that wants to price for a high ratio of night use and you are a low night user then single rate may be the best option but so could be moving to a supplier that prices on a lower nigh rate ratio.

Changing from multi-rate to single rate wont change how these people use their electricity.   It will just change the price they pay.

I've checked a few energy firms for Wiltshire and I can't find one with a 70:30 split, or better. If anyone can point me in the right direction then please do let me know.
Changing from multi to single rate can change how people use their electricity based on their circumstances. I now run my appliances when it is convenient to me, which is now during the day.

So perhaps this should indicate that you’re no longer the right customer for E7. Think about it this way - if you’d always bought a particular brand of bread, but they changed the recipe so you no longer enjoyed eating it, would you just insist that you should continue to buy it because it’s what you’ve always done? Of course not - you’d have a look around and find a different product that suited your needs. Energy tariffs are the same - sometimes things change, and sometimes your use changes. Either should prompt a review and changes if needed. 

Spoonie_Turtle

dunstonh said:
The article just focused on the negative and showed what one woman did and it probably wasnt the right option for her.

She said she was getting up in the night to boost her heating system before - struck me as very odd, and presumably means she doesn't have storage heaters.  In which case she was doing well to make E7 work for her before.

Dandytf

Surprised today's new report doesn't mention White Meter Areas.
I have storage heaters 2 rate in WM area, and witnessed increase through Day use.

Scot_39

Dandytf said:

Surprised today's new report doesn't mention White Meter Areas.
I have storage heaters 2 rate in WM area, and witnessed increase through Day use.

There are several multi-rate tariffs available historically.  Most - other than E7 - almost entirely abandoned for new customers with most suppliers (unless inherit an old meter on moving into a property)

White meter as I remember it from my parents day - used to be a form of E7 metering at one stage - at least for the Scottish Power version in central Scotland - which gave 8 continuous hours - not 7 - off peak.  The version for the WM / another supplier ?

But certainly if it is a conventional multi-rate tariff (x hours off peak / x hours peak etc ) - it is (or at least the maximum price) determined by the same Ofgem cap table as E7.

Most of the now failed new suppliers only ever supported SR and E7 - as did price comparison/switching sites.

The last data I saw from Ofgem - c2020/21 consultation paperwork - was iirc 4m multirate users - with c0.5m spread amongst the non E7 legacy/older tariffs.

E7 covers the majority of remaining multi-rate meters - and most suppliers are more open at producing the rates and actually support it - the BBC article refers to 2.5 million E7 metered customers. 

The Cap itself - actually not just one cap

There are essentially a set of 2 domestic cap tables - on for gas / one for electric - Ofgem calculates and issues to domestec suppliers - for each of the 3 main different payment methods.

Tabled by Ofgem as annual Standing Charge (the NIL rate) and total price for unit allowance

Gas 12000kWh

Electric - Single Rate 3100 kWh and Multi-rate Electric 4200kWh

The latest set are available as PDF via top link at bottom of

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/default-tariff-cap-level-1-january-2023-31-march-2023 

Itself linked from the main cap announcement

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/latest-energy-price-cap-announced-ofgem 

The current duel fuel cap quoted total price - and so the EPG - allows for 2900kWh (not 3100kWh as tabled) of SR electric and the 12000kWh gas.

PS  Direct debit is actually labelled "other payment method" in these Ofgem tables. 

Paying at bank or by cheque after receipt of bill = standard credit etc.

The EPG / discounting I believe sits relative to gas and regional average single rate electric pricing - but am willing to be proven wrong.

littleteapot

We have an electric only terraced house (gas was disconnected decades before we bought it) and shortly after moving in we upgraded the oldest storage heaters with HHR versions. Immersion heater replaced with modern dual skinned SS type from gledhill and main element wired to E7 CU (also has an upper element wried to a 30/60/120min timer for peak rate top up but we almost never use that. Do all washing, and in winter only we use  a heat-pump tumble dryer during the off peak period. Over the course of 12 months our off peak usage is 79%. Was on the April 2024v2 fix from EDF at 41p peak, 19p off peak. Recently changed to the SVR from EDF as the 7p off peak rate from Jan  2023 means an average monthly cost reduction from £160/month to under £130 based on our actual usage figures. It's horses for courses, simply compare tarrifs and choose the one which best matches your usage. in our case that happens to be EDF's SVR, but we will check every 3 months or so and if a more suitable tariff appears we will change to that. 

Scot_39

littleteapot said:

We have an electric only terraced house (gas was disconnected decades before we bought it) and shortly after moving in we upgraded the oldest storage heaters with HHR versions. Immersion heater replaced with modern dual skinned SS type from gledhill and main element wired to E7 CU (also has an upper element wried to a 30/60/120min timer for peak rate top up but we almost never use that. Do all washing, and in winter only we use  a heat-pump tumble dryer during the off peak period. Over the course of 12 months our off peak usage is 79%. Was on the April 2024v2 fix from EDF at 41p peak, 19p off peak. Recently changed to the SVR from EDF as the 7p off peak rate from Jan  2023 means an average monthly cost reduction from £160/month to under £130 based on our actual usage figures. It's horses for courses, simply compare tarrifs and choose the one which best matches your usage. in our case that happens to be EDF's SVR, but we will check every 3 months or so and if a more suitable tariff appears we will change to that. 

The big thing here - is that you actually have some relatively expensive kit upgrades - in place.

And are also obviously confident of dealing with supplier switches.

And so can take advantage of the great rate.

The actual BBC article - the non-government comments - are coming from the perspective of people in relative or actual poverty / fuel poverty - who therefore wouldn't be able to afford the upgrades.

Others maybe renting - whos landlords - council, housing association or private - would not have or be willing to spend that sort of money to help tenants out in the short term. 

Some maybe already in debt - and unable to move suppliers.

And I suspect it's the people struggling - with no easy way out - that organizations like "Fuel Poverty Action" and "End Fuel Poverty Coalition" are basically saying are being failed by Ofgem and the Jan cap generated price rises.

Coming as they are - at nominally the coldest part of the year.

EssexHebridean

Of my 4 storage heaters, only one is a modern HHR model - the others are all “box of bricks” standard type, with the oldest being estimated at over 30 years old. We also still have a traditional cylinder type immersion. Our night use hovers around 75% average over the year, so it’s entirely possible without having everything upgraded with the unquestionably better, but also unquestionably expensive, newer tech.

pensionpawn

EssexHebridean said:

pensionpawn said:

dunstonh said:

I think you might be missing the point. Historically the ratio was more like 70:30, or even 80:20 decades ago. The point being that historically these "currently frustrated" E7 customers were on a suitable tariff for their usage profile in the past. 

In 2022, you could get as low as 10% night use to be better on E7 with a certain supplier but 20% upwards was more typical.

Some suppliers have certainly pushed their pricing to favour those with much higher night ratios. However, that suggests the market is more efficient than single price as it still provides choice.

. You're not wrong that the E7 tariff is inappropriate for them now, that isn't being contended. So what is the impact of the changing E7 ratio, well it's migration to the single tariff and an increasing daytime demand on the grid / energy generators during an energy crisis. Surely not what Ofgen should be encouraging?

E7 may still be appropriate.  Just not the E7 supplier they are using.  If one has a business model that wants to price for a high ratio of night use and you are a low night user then single rate may be the best option but so could be moving to a supplier that prices on a lower nigh rate ratio.

Changing from multi-rate to single rate wont change how these people use their electricity.   It will just change the price they pay.

I've checked a few energy firms for Wiltshire and I can't find one with a 70:30 split, or better. If anyone can point me in the right direction then please do let me know.
Changing from multi to single rate can change how people use their electricity based on their circumstances. I now run my appliances when it is convenient to me, which is now during the day.

So perhaps this should indicate that you’re no longer the right customer for E7. Think about it this way - if you’d always bought a particular brand of bread, but they changed the recipe so you no longer enjoyed eating it, would you just insist that you should continue to buy it because it’s what you’ve always done? Of course not - you’d have a look around and find a different product that suited your needs. Energy tariffs are the same - sometimes things change, and sometimes your use changes. Either should prompt a review and changes if needed. 

I have looked around and changed, to single rate! However the point I am trying to make is that changing the ratio of the E7 tariff in a way that persuades customers to abandon E7, in the middle of an energy crisis, is not sensible for the country as a whole, let alone irritating to the individuals concerned. If anything the E7 ratio should be changing to encourage more customers to move to E7 and hence reduce demand during the daytime peaks, which are nearing 100% of generating capacity!

MattMattMattUK

pensionpawn said:

EssexHebridean said:

pensionpawn said:

dunstonh said:

I think you might be missing the point. Historically the ratio was more like 70:30, or even 80:20 decades ago. The point being that historically these "currently frustrated" E7 customers were on a suitable tariff for their usage profile in the past. 

In 2022, you could get as low as 10% night use to be better on E7 with a certain supplier but 20% upwards was more typical.

Some suppliers have certainly pushed their pricing to favour those with much higher night ratios. However, that suggests the market is more efficient than single price as it still provides choice.

. You're not wrong that the E7 tariff is inappropriate for them now, that isn't being contended. So what is the impact of the changing E7 ratio, well it's migration to the single tariff and an increasing daytime demand on the grid / energy generators during an energy crisis. Surely not what Ofgen should be encouraging?

E7 may still be appropriate.  Just not the E7 supplier they are using.  If one has a business model that wants to price for a high ratio of night use and you are a low night user then single rate may be the best option but so could be moving to a supplier that prices on a lower nigh rate ratio.

Changing from multi-rate to single rate wont change how these people use their electricity.   It will just change the price they pay.

I've checked a few energy firms for Wiltshire and I can't find one with a 70:30 split, or better. If anyone can point me in the right direction then please do let me know.
Changing from multi to single rate can change how people use their electricity based on their circumstances. I now run my appliances when it is convenient to me, which is now during the day.

So perhaps this should indicate that you’re no longer the right customer for E7. Think about it this way - if you’d always bought a particular brand of bread, but they changed the recipe so you no longer enjoyed eating it, would you just insist that you should continue to buy it because it’s what you’ve always done? Of course not - you’d have a look around and find a different product that suited your needs. Energy tariffs are the same - sometimes things change, and sometimes your use changes. Either should prompt a review and changes if needed. 

I have looked around and changed, to single rate! However the point I am trying to make is that changing the ratio of the E7 tariff in a way that persuades customers to abandon E7, in the middle of an energy crisis, is not sensible for the country as a whole, let alone irritating to the individuals concerned. 

The largest part of the "energy crisis" is cost rather than a shortage.

pensionpawn said:
If anything the E7 ratio should be changing to encourage more customers to move to E7 and hence reduce demand during the daytime peaks, which are nearing 100% of generating capacity!

We have not got close to nearing maximum generation capacity for some time, there was a notice at the back end of last year which the media picked up on but we still had 8% spare capacity in generation that was already online, with the notice being that if that fell further then coal plants should be ready to be brought online which would add further capacity. E7 in marginal cases where people only use a low percentage at night is generally not going to work and those people with their low usage at night are not improving grid balance anyway.