Cancelled Flights and More!

zapadoodle

Dear All,

I am dearly asking for help and advice on what to do with the following flight cancellations. 

Our initial plan was to fly to Porto and back from Gatwick. However the following is the turn of events

We turned up to Gatwick airport to find within 1-2hrs of leaving our flight was cancelled.
We all managed to rebook, there was a large group (~16 or so). Some managed to reschedule direct to Porto, whereas about 10people were diverted to Lisbon and then onto Porto the next day.
When arriving in Lisbon, rather than having to pay for hotel accommodation and lose a day in Porto and meeting with up with everyone else, the group of 10-12 decided to pay for train transport from Lisbon to Porto.
All was well until trying to board our return flights, when on the day or travel we were told that because we hadn't boarded the connecting Outbound flight from Lisbon to Porto, our return flights (Porto to Gatwick) had been cancelled!
So therefore due to our initial outboard flight being cancelled we have been forced to spend:
 Additional train transport from Lisbon to Porto
last minute return flights Porto to London (in 1 or 2 cases the connecting flight was via Spain!) - not everyone managed to fly direct
Food, taxis, buses and transfers expenses.

I am aware we can claim compensation for the cancelled outbound flight - that is straightforward. However my question is whether we can claim any compensation for our return flights being cancelled?!

We have contacted the airline with no success at all. Please Help if you can!

eskbanker

You may be able to claim compensation for the outbound flight, unless it was due to extraordinary circumstances, but should be able to reclaim the additional costs of the replacement flights, etc, which is a separate claim from compensation.

There won't be compensation for the return flight if it operated, although again you may be entitled to claim costs, but much will depend on what was discussed with the airline when the outbound flight was cancelled - which airline was it?

Edit: ignore that, see below!

JPears

If the OP hasn't been advised their return flight was cancelled and they had already checked in online, to my mind that is denied boarding. Compo due?

Caz3121

zapadoodle said:

the group of 10-12 decided to pay for train transport from Lisbon to Porto.

did they speak to anyone from the airline to advise they would not be using the Lisbon - Porto legs?

I'm guessing this was TAP rather than EasyJet

TAP conditions of carriage
4.5.2 If the Passenger does not use one of the legs foreseen in his/her Ticket, without informing us prior to the time of the flight, all subsequent segments will be cancelled and they will no longer be valid.

with a point to point airline like EasyJet this would not have mattered as they sell tickets as one-ways

eskbanker

JPears said:

If the OP hasn't been advised their return flight was cancelled and they had already checked in online, to my mind that is denied boarding. Compo due?

Yes, good point - as OP specifically says that the issue arose when "trying to board our return flights", that would indeed suggest that they'd checked in and were present at the airport, thereby fulfilling the conditions for a denied boarding claim under Article 4, triggering both compensation and reimbursement of rerouting and ancillary costs under articles 7, 8 and 9.

zapadoodle

Thankyou very much for all for the replies.

In relation to the ToC, our argument is that we wouldn't have needed to get the connecting flight from Lisbon to Porto if our original flight wasn't cancelled!

At the time we were in the airport trying to make sure 16people arrive to the same place on the same day and had spent many hours tryong to rebook flights, thats not the time to be checking ToCs that doesn't seem reasonable. 

It seems we are being charged for not complying with a very unfair rule that only came into force due to their cancellatio of outbound flight. It just doesnt seem right or legal?

The other aspect is that anyone can put anything in their ToCs, it doesn't necessarily mean it's fair, ethical and stands up in court?!

It was indeed TAP.

Westin

I don’t think their return flight was cancelled. Rather that their reservation on it was.

I think Caz3121 has highlighted the problem.  It will be within the conditions of carriage but all legs/sectors of a reservation must be flown in sequence or other sections get cancelled.  The group did not fly on the (rescheduled) LIS/OPO sector so the TAP system cancelled their next OPO/LON sector.   I do realise that this extra sector was not of the passengers making but this is the likelihood of what happened.  It is a computer generated cancellation of the passenger booking, not something done manually.

Had the group that flew via LIS contacted TAP staff to tell them of their intention to travel between the two points under their own steam then the airline staff, given the circumstances, would probably have manually intervened with the reservations system to stop the OPO/LON sectors being cancelled.

The situation is quite horrid and I can understand the groups actions. Even understandable that they might not know (unless studying the conditions of carriage) that this would happen if they did their own thing between LIS/OPO. That said, speaking to TAP, either at LGW before the new LIS flight, or anytime up to the new OPO flight on day 2, would likely have prevented this issue on the return flight.

These occurrences can and do happen. Normally airline staff can resolve. Disappointing that TAP at OPO did not resolve when the group arrived for the return flight.  Can only assume the group size meant they could no longer be accommodated on the flight. I would however have wished for better support and an outcome at OPO from TAP staff given the initial problems was of the airline making.

eskbanker

zapadoodle said:

The other aspect is that anyone can put anything in their ToCs, it doesn't necessarily mean it's fair, ethical and stands up in court?!

To be honest, it's a fairly standard term and similar can be seen at, for example, BA and Virgin:

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/legal/british-airways/general-conditions-of-carriage

3c10) If you fail to cancel a booking before the check-in deadline for your flight and do not show up for the flight, we may decide to cancel your return or onward reservations.

https://help.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/policies/conditions-of-carriage/article-6.html

(b) If you do not take your flights in the agreed sequence (including missing out a flight), your Ticket may not be honoured and may not be valid and we may cancel any onward or return journeys. 

although these both say 'may' cancel rather than TAP's 'will'.

Just to be clear, did your reference to "All was well until trying to board our return flights" signify that the issue only become apparent after check-in?

zapadoodle

To be honest, it's a fairly standard term and similar can be seen at, for example, BA and Virgin:

Agreed - but that doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be challenged? especially considering the mitigating circumstances

There are plenty of very suspect ToCs on private car parks that can and have been challenged with good advice on this forum - that was our thinking?

Just to be clear, did your reference to "All was well until trying to board our return flights" signify that the issue only become apparent after check-in?

Sorry this is my bad explanation, our return flights were cancelled before we checked in.


Thankyou again for taking the time to read and reply, it is much appreciated

eskbanker

zapadoodle said:

To be honest, it's a fairly standard term and similar can be seen at, for example, BA and Virgin:

Agreed - but that doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be challenged? especially considering the mitigating circumstances

There are plenty of very suspect ToCs on private car parks that can and have been challenged with good advice on this forum - that was our thinking?

Yes, as you say, a term being widespread doesn't in itself mean that it can't be challenged, but I'm not aware of such challenges having been made successfully, unlike the parking equivalent, although that significantly less regulated industry really is cowboy territory.  I suspect though that the more productive route here will be to challenge an unreasonably harsh invocation of the rule in your circumstances (of the airline's making) rather than trying to make a case that the term itself is unlawful.

zapadoodle said:

Just to be clear, did your reference to "All was well until trying to board our return flights" signify that the issue only become apparent after check-in?

Sorry this is my bad explanation, our return flights were cancelled before we checked in.

Was there any sort of notification of this from TAP, or did you just find out the hard way when trying to check in?

zapadoodle

Yes, as you say, a term being widespread doesn't in itself mean that it can't be challenged, but I'm not aware of such challenges having been made successfully, unlike the parking equivalent, although that significantly less regulated industry really is cowboy territory.  I suspect though that the more productive route here will be to challenge an unreasonably harsh invocation of the rule in your circumstances (of the airline's making) rather than trying to make a case that the term itself is unlawful.

Understood, makes sense

- Found out the hard way when trying to check in