Penalty Notice for Non Attendance

GrumpyDil

MalMonroe said:
My daughter's friend home-schooled her children and they are just as bright as any other child in the country. One of them was offered a place in college last year. He didn't taken any GCSEs but is keeping up with all those in his class who did. 

Only observation I would make is whilst I have nothing against home schooling having no GCSE's at all might hamper job prospects. At my company, the bare minimum requirement is a GCSE in maths and English. Without those no chance of a job and I suspect that is the same with a number of employers and careers. 

TripleH

The problem is that you set rules you have to draw a line somewhere to simplify things because 'subjective' is hard to define in legislation.

Unfortunately I would pay the fines, but see no problem verifying that they have been issued correctly (right amount etc).

If you suspect the fines have not been applied fairly to all then raise a complaint. There might be different circumstances you are unaware of that mean others didn't get fined.

diystarter7

CurlySue2017 said:

MalMonroe said:

Does anyone else feel like we're living in a police state - or at the very least heading that way?! 

What absolute nonsense this all is and it's about time it was stopped. 

No child is suddenly going to become dumb and dim because they miss a couple of weeks of school. 

What on earth is the point of fining people?

My daughter's friend home-schooled her children and they are just as bright as any other child in the country. One of them was offered a place in college last year. He didn't taken any GCSEs but is keeping up with all those in his class who did. He has a very enquiring mind and he and his brother were able to take holidays with their parents whenever was convenient for them all.

Children really don't need regimented, army-like schooling, they are learning all the time, as are we all. But we've all been brainwashed to think that children must go to school or they won't learn. It simply isn't true. 

I'd at least have a go at fighting these silly charges.

Agreed!  When I was at school (which was quite a few years ago granted!) you could go on holiday in term time, in fact it was pretty standard practice.  And we turned out ok in the end, it did our overall education no harm at all.  Mind you back then they weren't making primary age children sit exams either so.......

the highlighted bit. Not sure which school you went to but from what I kow, we and others had the attendance officer that would chase up parents arrive on their bike.

TBagpuss

Martin_the_Unjust said:

The_Unready said:

But if you don't nip the absence in the bud, with penalties if appropriate, where does it end? It's really not a question of how bright they are (or not).

Is it OK to take Johnny out of school for a couple of days? How about a week, or how about a month so that Johnny can see his relatives in Australia?

Schools and education authorities need to be consistent. It's not as if parents aren't aware of the rules/fines.

Let’s see how consistent they are when teachers strike!

Will the LEA be sending each parent £60 because their child missed a days education?

No, but they will in effect be fining the teachers by not paying them for the strike days.

And it is also a different scenario.

IF a child is out for a week, the teacher has to deal with helping that child to catch up / cover any work missed which may be needed as a foundation for the next step. For one child that may not be a major issue but multiply it by 30 kids and it potentially puts a huge additional burden on the teacher, and if they are then either going over the same work so those who missed it can catch up, or spending extra time to bring that child up to speed, it has a knock on effect on the other pupils. IF they don't, and leave the child to sink or swim, then the child who missed the time may struggle. And the teacher probably still ends up having to provide that child with additional help even if it is a bit further down the line when the missing block causes problems.

OF course teachers expect this to a point, kids are out for sickness etc, but if you add extra non-essential absences it add additional burdens on an already over-burdened system.

It does of course depend on the child. An academically able child may well be able to miss a week without any issues, a child who is interested in learning may well catch up without needing much input, but it's hardly practical to say 'we're fining Jason's parents because he's not academically gifted and is struggling to catch up, but we aren't fining Amelia's parents because she is bright and has educated, engaged parents who will help her at home'

jdvhsully

I work in a school, not a teacher, but look after 300 students pastoral care every day. I have to take my holidays when school is closed, and the price hike is the fundamental issue.
Would parents be happy if I said I’m going on holiday for one or two weeks as I can’t afford it as my salary is pro-rata so I don’t get paid for the holidays?

I have an overview on my students attendance, and I know parents have phoned in a child as sick for a week with flu, COVID, cold etc from their holiday (one child even shared his photos on social media, but mum was adamant he was sick).
Not being in school is a problem, and not all children can or will catch up, and it does impact on the those that have been there.

There has to be a system in place for students not being in school, and if fining is it then those fines need to be more as often the savings on the holiday are more than the fine, so parents will pay.

What needs to happen is a fairer pricing for holidays when schools are closed and the problem would not arise.

BungalowBel

MY retired teacher husband's answer as to whether children should be allowed holidays in term time would be  'Fine.  Take your children on holiday in October if you wish.  But don't expect me to provide and mark  catch-up lessons for them  when I have thirty other kids to teach'.

sevenhills

BungalowBel said:

MY retired teacher husband's answer as to whether children should be allowed holidays in term time would be  'Fine.  Take your children on holiday in October if you wish.  But don't expect me to provide and mark  catch-up lessons for them  when I have thirty other kids to teach'.

I describe it as a tax, not a fine. New rules for some motoring offences are based on income. All fines should be based in income, otherwise it doesn't affect the wealthy.
Private schools have longer holidays, no term time fines are issued.

sheramber

My son works in a private school.

The only reason they appear to have more holidays is because they do not close on Public/Bank holidays so these are added on to main holidays.

Nor do the teachers in the private school go on strike because they are paid  by the school, not the local authority.

Parents registering their child with a local authority sign up to the local authority rules.

Parents paying for their child to go to a private school do not sign up to local authority rules. They sign up to what ever rules that particular school have.

They pay a lot for their child's education so may be less inclined to 'lose money'.

T.T.D

The problem I have with in this case is if both parents live together, then the fine should be to both but at £60.00 level. 

I feel it’s double dipping and outside of the scope of the spirit of the legislation.

couples living together £60.00

separated couples in a equal civil co-parenting capacity £60 each 

But fining couples living at the same address I feel is manipulating the legislation for a monetary gain. 

When I was in school not once did any teacher spend any time on me trying to catch me up when I was missing school due to hospitalisations.  Not once did I witness a teacher in either primary or secondary level catch up any pupil in our classes. No teacher wanted to assist my daughter catch up either in a period of time off either. I find the explanation of teachers having to spend more time catching up pupils having term Time holidays is more a catch phrase to justify why they support the fine, if you are a teacher who does put the extra in your the exception and not the rule. I’ve assisted many a parent and interacted with many a teacher to form this opinion. 

sevenhills

T.T.D said:

When I was in school not once did any teacher spend any time on me trying to catch me up when I was missing school due to hospitalisations.  Not once did I witness a teacher in either primary or secondary level catch up any pupil in our classes. No teacher wanted to assist my daughter catch up either in a period of time off either. I find the explanation of teachers having to spend more time catching up pupils having term Time holidays is more a catch phrase to justify why they support the fine, if you are a teacher who does put the extra in your the exception and not the rule. I’ve assisted many a parent and interacted with many a teacher to form this opinion. 

That was probably some years ago. My daughters attendance was around 90%, rather poor. Due to illness and possibly poor motivation, but she did catch up with extra help. She also took a holiday in term time, but didn't get fined. That was around six years ago.