New build layout issue found one year after purchase

FirstTimeBuyer_

Tiglet2 said:

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

TadleyBaggie said:

Robin9 said:

Is this the same house that in March 2022 you had issues with the Service Charge ?

Sounds highly likely. The first thing they said on that other thread seems a bit daft now:

Hi all, I’m a first time buyer and I have taken time to research everything properly

Doesn't seem that way a year later.

Yes, it is me. Great you have fun judging me rather than helping! No one is perfect, and no matter how much you research, in the real life, in the midst of the buying a house with the developer and their solicitor not being helpful and threatening they have people in the queue waiting to buy your house if you don’t exchange, I wonder what would you do, knowing the interest rates were going up any minute, everyone was panic buying and overpaying for worst houses, there was no other houses you could buy, and you really wanted this particular house. I literally felt at the time like I had to beg developers to sell me this house. We had a lot of things being incorrect on t1 and contract that my solicitor fought to get amended and in the end I had to sign it as it was as she said we were “in their hands” 

You accepted the property as it was when you exchanged contracts because you were feeling under pressure from the developer, their solicitor, 'other potential purchasers in the queue', your solicitor saying he was in their hand and the rising mortgage rates/property prices.   Unfortunately the choice at that time would have been to walk away or accept it as it was.  As you chose to accept the situation, I don't think you can do anything now, except maybe get quotes from builders/bathroom fitters to add an en-suite if that is what you want.  It will reduce the size of your bedroom though.

Thank you for your response. This is exactly what I wanted to find out. I already emailed my solicitor to ask her too, so I will see what she comes back with next week and will update this thread in case of other first time buyers having similar issue before they exchange rather than raising it a year after like I am trying to now. 

EssexHebridean

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

Please do not come to conclusions when I’m now comparing how unfairly I am treated and saying “shared ownership” and “freehold” properties as it doesn’t mean I see them as worst. Why I’m mentioning them is that I would expect freehold properties to be treated on the same level not worst 

I wasn’t forming any sort of conclusion with your use of shared ownership and freehold as differentiations…

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

people who pay less. 

…she will not pay less than you, in fact, if as and when she decides to staircase there is every chance she will end up paying more than you as she will have paid rent on her unowned portion until then. 

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

Her being a “Karen” is a know term to describe difficult to deal with people and it doesn’t matter in the slightest to me if she had a freehold property or not ! She would still be a “Karen” with her behaviour when she came up to me with her attitude trying to enter my house on the day I got my keys. 

And it is still an offensive term. You’ve managed to clarify what you mean there, you could have used that throughout. 

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

The fact she is a shared ownership owner was only mentioned to show how even more unfair it is to be treated worst than someone who paid the full price. Not because I think she is worst, so stop insinuating! 

Good to have that clarified - so how is it “more unfair” then - allowing that we’ve established that you don’t see shared ownership as somehow “less” than your full freehold ownership?

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

I’m not even English myself, I moved to the UK 7 years ago and built my career from scratch and bought my house completely on my own with no one’s help, so you trying to judge me and insinuate that I’m against people with less money is out of order! 

Being able to buy a house outright is something that few people are able to do - so well done on that. However, the majority of people DO need some form of financial help to get on the ladder - whether by means of a mortgage, or by means of purchasing on a shared ownership model, perhaps with a plan to purchase additional shares down the line, and eventually even advance to 100% ownership…you may not be “against” people with less money as such, but your attitude towards those who’ve bought under that shared own ship model is fairly apparent fro:your posting, whether you realise it or not. Maybe reflect a little on your own fortunate financial position (however you reached that point you were still fortunate to be able to do so) and consider how easily you could have been the one with a 25% share and hefty rent bill, or a colossal mortgage.

FirstTimeBuyer_

EssexHebridean said:

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

Please do not come to conclusions when I’m now comparing how unfairly I am treated and saying “shared ownership” and “freehold” properties as it doesn’t mean I see them as worst. Why I’m mentioning them is that I would expect freehold properties to be treated on the same level not worst 

I wasn’t forming any sort of conclusion with your use of shared ownership and freehold as differentiations…

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

people who pay less. 

…she will not pay less than you, in fact, if as and when she decides to staircase there is every chance she will end up paying more than you as she will have paid rent on her unowned portion until then. 

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

Her being a “Karen” is a know term to describe difficult to deal with people and it doesn’t matter in the slightest to me if she had a freehold property or not ! She would still be a “Karen” with her behaviour when she came up to me with her attitude trying to enter my house on the day I got my keys. 

And it is still an offensive term. You’ve managed to clarify what you mean there, you could have used that throughout. 

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

The fact she is a shared ownership owner was only mentioned to show how even more unfair it is to be treated worst than someone who paid the full price. Not because I think she is worst, so stop insinuating! 

Good to have that clarified - so how is it “more unfair” then - allowing that we’ve established that you don’t see shared ownership as somehow “less” than your full freehold ownership?

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

I’m not even English myself, I moved to the UK 7 years ago and built my career from scratch and bought my house completely on my own with no one’s help, so you trying to judge me and insinuate that I’m against people with less money is out of order! 

Being able to buy a house outright is something that few people are able to do - so well done on that. However, the majority of people DO need some form of financial help to get on the ladder - whether by means of a mortgage, or by means of purchasing on a shared ownership model, perhaps with a plan to purchase additional shares down the line, and eventually even advance to 100% ownership…you may not be “against” people with less money as such, but your attitude towards those who’ve bought under that shared own ship model is fairly apparent fro:your posting, whether you realise it or not. Maybe reflect a little on your own fortunate financial position (however you reached that point you were still fortunate to be able to do so) and consider how easily you could have been the one with a 25% share and hefty rent bill, or a colossal mortgage.

Nonsense. I don’t even intend to continue any discussion with you. Just to clarify how I reached my position though - I worked hard, spent my money on extra qualifications and built my career whilst renting a room until I could afford to buy a house. It is not hard and not fortunate to be able to do it! It’s a choice not to eat out, have takeaways or rent apartment rather than a room when you still can’t afford deposit. It is easy to say someone is “fortunate” - its someone who never worked hard and saved money sensibly would say. I sacrificed for few years before I was able to afford buying a house, and I still never rented apartment even if I was in a position to do so as I never live above my means and in my mind if you can’t save for deposit, you shouldn’t be eating out or having takeaways. I come from poor family, had normal education and worked hard all my life for everything I have. Including learning English in non English country. I built career in foreign country - it’s not “fortunate” thing to do. It takes a lot of courage to move to foreign country on your own and achieve something. 

Doozergirl

How to win friends and influence people.  

OP, you signed in the dotted line and there is evidence that you understood there was no ensuite before you exchanged .  

The situation changed when interest rates rose. People will be paying more in the long term since that point - that is the whole nature of the property market, it moves. 

You've said you felt under pressure because you knew that someone else would buy your house as it was for the same price at that time.  So your house was worth what you paid for it at that time.  

Just accept that.  The market changes, so it was easier for someone else (who is also paying a lot of money, in fact more,  for their almost identical property) to negotiate at that time.    That's the way the cookie crumbles. 

Don't make it about other people or how hard you work compared to them.  You have no idea and it's not a good look. It's giving off what you might call 'Karen' vibes but others might call a
sense of superior entitlement.  

EssexHebridean

We currently are without a mortgage having worked incredibly hard to clear our last one in. 13 years rather than 25. We made all the sacrifices you mention to get it cleared - and more - but are we fortunate to be in the position we are now? You bet! Fortunate to have made the choices we did when we bought - by not overstretching ourselves then we had the ability to overpay. Fortunate to have a level of income which while not no making us in any way “rich” means that we had enough left over to make those overpayments. Fortunate that MrEH’s educational background enabled him to go to university, and so improve his earning level which again helps out household income. Fortunate that we had the financial knowledge to understand the benefits of overpaying in the first place… 

I actually said in my reply to you “however you reached that point, you were still fortunate to be able to do so” - just because someone has worked hard for something, there have always been factors which make that possible - being in good health enabling working long hours perhaps, or having a stable family background that enables further education to be an option. Someone on minimum wage might never have a takeaway, go on holiday, buy an expensive mobile phone or pay for an expensive TV package - but their circumstances probably mean that in spite of doing and having none of those things, saving for a deposit is still going to be well beyond them. There are other circumstances to consider as well - location, whether someone has children or elderly relatives to care for for example.

I’d suggest that if you are unable to see the issues that the majority of people in society face financially, and put it all down to just “making the right choices” without any thought to how personal circumstances can affect the choices that are open to those people, then that does indeed make you “fortunate” - at the very least fortunate enough to be in a position that you’ve been able to make the choices you have. “Fortunate” doesn’t mean you’ve had something handed to you on a plate, just that you’re lucky to be in a position where your barriers have been able to be overcome - not everyone is in that position, no matter how much you like to think it’s all black and white. 

 

Returning to the original topic, my understanding is that usually when buying a new build you get a walk through on handover with someone from the developer, when you get the chance to raise issues, agree a snagging list etc. I’m struggling to see a scenario where if I went on that handover, for a property which as I understood it, and my plan confirmed, had an en-suite bathroom, and that en-suite was nowhere to be seen, I didn’t raise it as a pretty significant issue. 

FirstTimeBuyer_

EssexHebridean said:

We currently are without a mortgage having worked incredibly hard to clear our last one in. 13 years rather than 25. We made all the sacrifices you mention to get it cleared - and more - but are we fortunate to be in the position we are now? You bet! Fortunate to have made the choices we did when we bought - by not overstretching ourselves then we had the ability to overpay. Fortunate to have a level of income which while not no making us in any way “rich” means that we had enough left over to make those overpayments. Fortunate that MrEH’s educational background enabled him to go to university, and so improve his earning level which again helps out household income. Fortunate that we had the financial knowledge to understand the benefits of overpaying in the first place… 

I actually said in my reply to you “however you reached that point, you were still fortunate to be able to do so” - just because someone has worked hard for something, there have always been factors which make that possible - being in good health enabling working long hours perhaps, or having a stable family background that enables further education to be an option. Someone on minimum wage might never have a takeaway, go on holiday, buy an expensive mobile phone or pay for an expensive TV package - but their circumstances probably mean that in spite of doing and having none of those things, saving for a deposit is still going to be well beyond them. There are other circumstances to consider as well - location, whether someone has children or elderly relatives to care for for example.

I’d suggest that if you are unable to see the issues that the majority of people in society face financially, and put it all down to just “making the right choices” without any thought to how personal circumstances can affect the choices that are open to those people, then that does indeed make you “fortunate” - at the very least fortunate enough to be in a position that you’ve been able to make the choices you have. “Fortunate” doesn’t mean you’ve had something handed to you on a plate, just that you’re lucky to be in a position where your barriers have been able to be overcome - not everyone is in that position, no matter how much you like to think it’s all black and white. 

 

Returning to the original topic, my understanding is that usually when buying a new build you get a walk through on handover with someone from the developer, when you get the chance to raise issues, agree a snagging list etc. I’m struggling to see a scenario where if I went on that handover, for a property which as I understood it, and my plan confirmed, had an en-suite bathroom, and that en-suite was nowhere to be seen, I didn’t raise it as a pretty significant issue. 

Unfortunately I’m not able to see it as “fortunate” as I had the worst possible environment growing up and probably if I was just letting my “circumstances” define me for my whole life, I would have been in a very bad place, potentially addicted to something and homeless. So in this case I do see it as a black and white in terms of no matter what circumstances English person would have been, it wouldn’t be as bad as what I had. 

Regarding your comment you are again incorrect In terms of handover meeting - it never happened. They did it without my involvement and as per other things I brought up, they were very unhelpful. I only had a meeting I requested just before the exchange as I literally begged them to let me see the house, and it wasn’t with the builder who would walk me through it and where everything is, but the sales person who was clueless and told me to email them after with everything and also said snag list will have to be prepared and send after I move in for which they gave me 7 working days only, and this is exactly what I did. 

letom

I think I'm going to stick to the original question and try to answer that as best I can. Realistically your options are

1. Complain to the builder and hope that they then rectify this and agree to install an en-suite

2. Begin legal proceedings to compel them to do this, after convincing a judge that they have in some way breached the contact you had with them

However the chances of no.2 (and likely no.1) happening are quite remote because 

i. You viewed the property before exchange, and something as obvious as not having an en-suite would have been obvious at which point you would have raised it and rectified this pre completion

ii. It has been a year, with that length of time and the fact you would have been using the room without the en-suite it’s therefore presumed (normally) that you have accepted that the developer has delivered their end of the contract

iii. You have asked for the updated plans, which would be another slam dunk (alongside the previous 2 point), you’ve essentially admitted that the plans were changed and that you wanted the new plans

Therefore I would just drop this, it’s probably not worth going further than mentioning to your solicitor. I would take solace in what you have said at the time, i.e. there was so much demand and you were desperate to complete. If you had known the developer would create en-suites in other developments, most likely you would still have accepted your current place, therefore realistically you’re at the same place you would have been anyways.

EssexHebridean

letom said:

I think I'm going to stick to the original question and try to answer that as best I can. Realistically your options are

1. Complain to the builder and hope that they then rectify this and agree to install an en-suite

2. Begin legal proceedings to compel them to do this, after convincing a judge that they have in some way breached the contact you had with them

However the chances of no.2 (and likely no.1) happening are quite remote because 

i. You viewed the property before exchange, and something as obvious as not having an en-suite would have been obvious at which point you would have raised it and rectified this pre completion

ii. It has been a year, with that length of time and the fact you would have been using the room without the en-suite it’s therefore presumed (normally) that you have accepted that the developer has delivered their end of the contract

iii. You have asked for the updated plans, which would be another slam dunk (alongside the previous 2 point), you’ve essentially admitted that the plans were changed and that you wanted the new plans

Therefore I would just drop this, it’s probably not worth going further than mentioning to your solicitor. I would take solace in what you have said at the time, i.e. there was so much demand and you were desperate to complete. If you had known the developer would create en-suites in other developments, most likely you would still have accepted your current place, therefore realistically you’re at the same place you would have been anyways.

The bits in bold sum it up. To all intents and purposes OP, you accepted the property with its changed specification on what you thought you were getting. The handover meeting did happen - it wouldn’t be particularly unusual for that to happen with a sales contact I wouldn’t think.if you’d challenged the fact that your new house had an entire room missing at that stage, then there would have been a good chance that some concession could have been made.

housebuyer143

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

Please do not come to conclusions when I’m now comparing how unfairly I am treated and saying “shared ownership” and “freehold” properties as it doesn’t mean I see them as worst. Why I’m mentioning them is that I would expect freehold properties to be treated on the same level not worst 

I wasn’t forming any sort of conclusion with your use of shared ownership and freehold as differentiations…

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

people who pay less. 

…she will not pay less than you, in fact, if as and when she decides to staircase there is every chance she will end up paying more than you as she will have paid rent on her unowned portion until then. 

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

Her being a “Karen” is a know term to describe difficult to deal with people and it doesn’t matter in the slightest to me if she had a freehold property or not ! She would still be a “Karen” with her behaviour when she came up to me with her attitude trying to enter my house on the day I got my keys. 

And it is still an offensive term. You’ve managed to clarify what you mean there, you could have used that throughout. 

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

The fact she is a shared ownership owner was only mentioned to show how even more unfair it is to be treated worst than someone who paid the full price. Not because I think she is worst, so stop insinuating! 

Good to have that clarified - so how is it “more unfair” then - allowing that we’ve established that you don’t see shared ownership as somehow “less” than your full freehold ownership?

FirstTimeBuyer_ said:

EssexHebridean said:

You do know that there are actual real people in existence with the name you’re using as an insult, right? 

There are definitely conclusions to be drawn about attitudes here, I’d agree…

IMO this is why sadly social housing combined with full privately owned on same  developments often doesn’t work, sadly - a nasty “them and us” viewpoint often prevails.

I’m not even English myself, I moved to the UK 7 years ago and built my career from scratch and bought my house completely on my own with no one’s help, so you trying to judge me and insinuate that I’m against people with less money is out of order! 

Being able to buy a house outright is something that few people are able to do - so well done on that. However, the majority of people DO need some form of financial help to get on the ladder - whether by means of a mortgage, or by means of purchasing on a shared ownership model, perhaps with a plan to purchase additional shares down the line, and eventually even advance to 100% ownership…you may not be “against” people with less money as such, but your attitude towards those who’ve bought under that shared own ship model is fairly apparent fro:your posting, whether you realise it or not. Maybe reflect a little on your own fortunate financial position (however you reached that point you were still fortunate to be able to do so) and consider how easily you could have been the one with a 25% share and hefty rent bill, or a colossal mortgage.

Nonsense. I don’t even intend to continue any discussion with you. Just to clarify how I reached my position though - I worked hard, spent my money on extra qualifications and built my career whilst renting a room until I could afford to buy a house. It is not hard and not fortunate to be able to do it! It’s a choice not to eat out, have takeaways or rent apartment rather than a room when you still can’t afford deposit. It is easy to say someone is “fortunate” - its someone who never worked hard and saved money sensibly would say. I sacrificed for few years before I was able to afford buying a house, and I still never rented apartment even if I was in a position to do so as I never live above my means and in my mind if you can’t save for deposit, you shouldn’t be eating out or having takeaways. I come from poor family, had normal education and worked hard all my life for everything I have. Including learning English in non English country. I built career in foreign country - it’s not “fortunate” thing to do. It takes a lot of courage to move to foreign country on your own and achieve something. 

I'm sorry but you sound very ignorant. I felt like people were being rude to you but this comment just gets my back up.

Your circumstances have enabled you to do all the things you talked about above, including working hard, spending extra on qualifications and then being able to secure a good job. Yes, you obviously worked hard but people who earn minimum wage work hard and potentially harder in my opinion and are not less deserving of buying property. In my opinion people on shared ownership work hard but in low paying jobs in areas with ridiculously high prices. They need this help. 

Be grateful you could achieve these things and that you do not have an illness, disability, poor education which has resulted in your limited life choices. Yes it takes courage to do these things, but not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to take that risk. Your comment that no English person could have had it as hard as you again speaks to your ignorance. 

Anyone in life who has achieved anything has done so not only with very hard work but also because they had a little luck afforded to them. 
You are not better than anyone else because you have more money than them. 

katkatmachine

Oh wow! What a thread! Can we get some popcorn please? This is getting good. Lol. 

Kidding aside, like what others said I don’t think that you’ll get your ensuite or at least get compensated for the lack of it. The developer didn’t install it but you still accepted and signed it knowing that there’s no ensuite so why would they do it now one year later?

You can still check with your solicitor though if there’s still anything you can do about it. Maybe begin legal proceedings? Idk. But if it’s going to involve more time and money I would just drop it, accept the situation and move on. Hey it’s not too bad, you have more space, maybe you can set-up a small walk in closet instead? Idk. Just throwing some ideas. 

I know it’s hard but try not to get too fixated about it. Otherwise it’s just all you will think about and you’ll just be more miserable. Good luck.