Scottish Power and Economy 10 January price hikes

TeachersPensionNovice

You're absolutely right. The kWh figures in the letter include VAT but the kWh in the bill have VAT added separately. As you say, it is as bad as they said. The best they can offer is to set both rates to the EPG of 36.45p (inc VAT).

Spoonie_Turtle

Just a thought, does she pay on receipt of bill?  The price cap applies to Direct Debit and I wonder if that might explain why they're both higher.

TeachersPensionNovice

Yes, she pays on receipt of bill. However, they insist that there is no direct debit option for Economy 10. I'm not sure I believe them. It took me hours to convince them that their rates were above the EPG in that area. I'm going to move her account as soon as possible. It's clear Scottish Power is ripping her off.

Scot_39

TeachersPensionNovice said:

Yes, she pays on receipt of bill. However, they insist that there is no direct debit option for Economy 10. I'm not sure I believe them. It took me hours to convince them that their rates were above the EPG in that area. I'm going to move her account as soon as possible. It's clear Scottish Power is ripping her off.

@TeachersPensionNovice

See tables at

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/energy-price-guarantee-regional-rates/energy-price-guarantee-regional-rates-january-to-march-2023 

So the EPG you need to look at as a SR reference point isn't currently DD (other payment method in Ofgem speak) - as you quoted in first post -

NW Mersey - 34.71p+VAT = 36.446p

But a more (c10% more)  expensive (payment on receipt of bill - standard credit in Ofgem speak) - 38.26p+VAT = 40.173p

That's a whopping 3.7p difference for every kWh.

At Ofgem MR table 4200 kWh - £156 per annum.

So going back to your very first post - the new rate is being asked to pay the SR EPG - for day use - for that payment method.

And a very small discount for off-peak. 

So whilst not brilliant for a high user - it doesn't punish low users.

Edit 12:15 12/1/23

Oh - and for now at least - the cheapest SR EPG in region - is prepayment @33.7p+VAT = 35.4p. (which IIRC used to be the expensive option)

Moving to DD

The move just to DD - saving that 3.7p/kWh - could well dwarf the benefit of many an E7 move - even at 80% use - compared to the average kWh charge over the year.

Did you really mean no DD option - or no variable DD option ?

Be sure when comparing - if not wanting mum to go onto an annualised averaged priced DD - the new supplier -

a) allows variable monthly DD 

and

b) does so at the same lower charge. 

(There has been some chat here on the issue - but cannot remember who did, who didn't and the pricing details)

Scot_39

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Just a thought, does she pay on receipt of bill?  The price cap applies to Direct Debit and I wonder if that might explain why they're both higher.

Technically - the Ofgem price caps exist for all 3 payment methods - but they are not the same price.

As does the EPG guarantee SR pricing - hence the 3.7p for NW less for DD vs pay on receipt.

MR like E7 gets more complex - as firms - just like day / night split - have more freedom over split - of peak / off-peak rates (and if believe EDF discounted and undiscounted tables - the EPG discount applied)

And - the cheapest SR EPG - in MW - is currently the pre-payment option - 33.7+VAT - whereas in past - prepayment tended to be the most expensive.

TeachersPensionNovice

Scot_39 said:

Did you really mean no DD option - or no variable DD option ?

We have been repeatedly told that we are on the cheapest deal and that there are no DD deals that would be cheaper. I interpreted that statement to mean that there was no DD option for Eco 10. When I specifically asked about moving to DD, they told me that wouldn't save any money.

The last time I spoke to them they conceded that moving to a SR DD deal would be cheaper, but they didn't know if I would actually be allowed to do that with an Eco 10 meter. I was cut-off before I got an answer and it takes 45mins on hold to talk to anyone at Scottish Power at the moment.

I hadn't noticed that prepayment was the cheapest option at the moment, but I'm reluctant to have my mum's meter changed to that. My mum's meter currently gives 11 hours off-peak:

• 1:30am -> 8:30am (7 hours)
• 1:30pm -> 4:30pm (3 hours)
  
• 7pm -> 8pm (1 hour)
  

Not sure if that is a mistake or a legacy tariff. The meter was installed in the 60s. However, suppliers appear to treat it as Eco 10. With those timings her usage is around 85% off-peak. A prepayment meter would give 35.39p (inc. VAT) and EDF are offering 34.96p (inc. VAT) off-peak and 36.45p (inc VAT) peak. With her current usage pattern that should average 35.18p (inc. VAT) so EDF is my current favourite.

EssexHebridean

While I believe there are (or at least, have been) some tariffs out there that demand payment to be made by DD, I'm not convinced that they would be allowed to force people onto the higher receipt of bill rates by refusing to allow DD payments. 

Scot_39

TeachersPensionNovice said:

I hadn't noticed that prepayment was the cheapest option at the moment, but I'm reluctant to have my mum's meter changed to that. My mum's meter currently gives 11 hours off-peak:

Share your concerns.

If or when leave E10 - you are likely to leave it for good - I was told verbally by meter installers as fitted an E7 to a neighbors.

EOn actually in past offered me pre-pay as cheapest option about a year and half ago - but that was on a summer bill - and they still offer another tariff occassionally (but other times say on cheapest deal) - but cannot see how they arrive at it over a whole year use anyway.

My legacy tariff actually has E10 (DD) in the title - but each supplier will be different.  And these companies seem to deliberately hide details - to make it awkward.  EOn only offer me 3 tariffs - if look for options - and my E10 not on the list - very much a legacy tariff.

The hassle involved seems truly mind-blowing these days - either deliberate obfuscation - or bad training and support levels - or both combined - if being cynical. Especially for E10.

Just glad your mother has someone to do that groundwork for her.

Good Luck with finding a suitable solution.

EssexHebridean

I suspect the concern is that currently OP’s Mum gets an extra hour of off-peak, which would be lost if she had a meter change!