Scottish Power and Economy 10 January price hikes

TeachersPensionNovice

My mother is on an Economy 10 tariff with Scottish Power in the Mersey (formally Manweb) area of the country. Before the 1st of January her unit rates were as follows:

• off-peak -> 30.113p
• all-day -> 37.001p 
  

As of the 1st of January her new rates are:

• off-peak -> 38.69p
• all-day -> 40.17p

That's a 28.5% increase for off-peak power, which she uses mostly. That means both off-peak and all-day power are more than the government price guarantee in that area of 36.45p. Is anyone else seeing such huge increases in off-peak power costs?

bristolleedsfan

SP have one of the cheapest night rates for E7 according to comparison posted on forum

Not many suppliers offer specific E10 tariff

https://economy10.com/list-of-suppliers/ note *

* These suppliers fully support Economy 10 meters. They will install a new Economy 10 meter for you, fix a faulty E10 meter, and generally provide a better understanding of the whole process.

TeachersPensionNovice

Quick update. EDF offered the following rates:

• off-peak -> 34.96
• all-day -> 36.44

So a fair bit cheaper than Scottish Power. Octopus won't do Economy 10, but would install a new Economy 7 meter. Their rates would be:

• off-peak -> 18.61p
• all-day -> 48.3p

I think Octopus will likely be the cheapest.

dunstonh

Economy 10 is not well supported.  So, terms tend not to be so good.  If her set up can be adjusted to economy 7 then EDF is one of the best for heavy off peak users.

If she is closer to 40% off peak, then others may be better.

Scot_39

TeachersPensionNovice said:

My mother is on an Economy 10 tariff with Scottish Power in the Mersey (formally Manweb) area of the country. Before the 1st of January her unit rates were as follows:

• off-peak -> 30.113p
• all-day -> 37.001p 
  

As of the 1st of January her new rates are:

• off-peak -> 38.69p
• all-day -> 40.17p

That's a 28.5% increase for off-peak power, which she uses mostly. That means both off-peak and all-day power are more than the government price guarantee in that area of 36.45p. Is anyone else seeing such huge increases in off-peak power costs?

It makes no sense to stay on the face of it - if her off peak rate and day rate are both over the single rate EPG - there is no incentive. But the way Ofgem MR, SR and EPG discounts on the different tariffs interact is producing some real funnies judging by posts here right now - future - who knows ?.

As different suppliers seem to weight peak and off-peak rates very differently - and even the same supplier across different regions (all Ofgem pricing is regional - as is the EPG) / payment methods. 

The economy10.com site seems less well supported these days - that list Nov 21 - may well already be out of date - and see forum has some people posting way off topic.  Glad you found at least one willing to quote E10.

Might bear that in mind myself - as haven't tried for a while.  I did in past and failed to find any cheaper big 6 supplier to take on me as a fully supported E10 customer.

I am on E10.

Even for EOn, let alone the new shell co. EOn Next for domestic customers - very much a legacy tariff i.e. for existing customers only. Some of the staff don't even recognise E10 - as a tariff type.

(Ofgem pays it lip service - it never insisted even largest new suppliers or comparison sites supported it - which really didn't help pricing).

Anyway - my EOn Next E10 Jan 2023 prices

This time my day and night rates both went up almost the same this time - night was c2.26p - on Jan 1st - so after current 31.8p EPG discount - now paying (last time my day rate up c10p, off-peak down c0.2p)

c44.5p peak

c22.6p off-peak (both /kWh inc vAT).

The regional Single Rate EPG here is a lower c32.8p (went down c0.2p in Jan) - than Mersey / N Wales - IIRC the most expensive region - at 36.4p (went up in Jan IIRC  BBC article).

Others with E7 on Eon have seen similar equal shifts day/night too in my region - other companies - more variable.

TeachersPensionNovice said:

Quick update. EDF offered the following rates:

• off-peak -> 34.96
• all-day -> 36.44

So a fair bit cheaper than Scottish Power. Octopus won't do Economy 10, but would install a new Economy 7 meter. Their rates would be:

• off-peak -> 18.61p
• all-day -> 48.3p

I think Octopus will likely be the cheapest.

Your EDF quote - seems very flat balance - theres only 1.5p / unit incentive for using off-peak - but then as giving SR EPG for peak (assumiing these include VAT) - no penalty - so cheaper than SR regardless of % off-peak use - just not by much. 

They produced tables for SR, E7, E10 etc - see links from bottom of page below - but cannot see those rates quoted - so possibly already out of date now.  Is it possible your mother is on a legacy meter type tariff still ?

https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energy-price-guarantee

Re Octopus - sure you are more than aware - but E7 is not E10.

And - if the Mersey system works the same as mine - swapping may well mean she loses low rate in afternoon (for me thats 1-4pm in winter ) and late evening (8-10pm) - but gain 2 hours early morning.

So currently I charge my old NSH to a lower level - but do so 3 times a day - so a smoother charge / room temperature distribution.  And if I have set them too low ( I deliberately try to as weather changes - my E10 rates apply to house - my old Heatwise was only heating / hot water - so just use additional plug in heaters at off-peak rates during those slots to boost.)

More modern HHR NSH heaters can - I have been told by neighbours - who swapped to Quantums a few years back - still work very well off of E7 - using little or no day rate boost - as long as configuration OK.

Before rushing to switch - have a good think about how the house/hot water is heated and any other large power draws (on annual and winter usage) - and how your mother uses the electricity in general terms.

Sadly - there is no one size fits all - for choice of tariffs - as every house / owner is different.

Suggest you try and find out mothers last 12 months usage - and run the numbers for options.

And check for any possible implications - if say current off-peak only circuits - were to change.

E7 should just be a simple timing change.

SR might leave things like emmersion or NSH circuits on (I hope rather than off) 24/7 subject to thermostat settings - if operate without their own timer switches.

matelodave

If you do decide to shift from E10 to E7 be aware that not only will you get 3hrs less off-peak supply but the the timings will be a lot different.
E7 only offers off-peak between around midnight and 7am whereas E10 provides it for a shorter period over night but also gives a boost during the afternoon and for a couple of hours in the evening as well.

If the heating has been designed for E10 then its unlikely that the heaters will be sized to store enough heat in just one 7 hour overnight session and you could end up running out of heat by lunchtime and having to use a lot more peak rate leccy to compensate for not having the afternoon and evening boost. 

As suggested above you'll probably need to ugrade or increase the size of the heaters, so do your sums carefully before just swapping.

TeachersPensionNovice

Scot_39 said:

They produced tables for SR, E7, E10 etc - see links from bottom of page below - but cannot see those rates quoted - so possibly already out of date now.  Is it possible your mother is on a legacy meter type tariff still ?

https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energy-price-guarantee

The rates you mention are dated 1st Jan 2023 and would work out better for my mum given that she uses 80% off-peak. I shall give EDF another call armed with that information.

EssexHebridean

Have you double checked that those SP rates aren't before the EPG discounts are applied? It seems unlikely to me that such a large supplier is outright breaching the price cap for a fair number of customers and that they wouldn't have been pulled up on it... 

And yes - I would also suggest that an energy audit of your Mum's house would be a good idea prior to making any switch from E7 to E10 - the key thing you need to know is exactly how she uses her heating at the moment - if she's running a standard electric heater for three hours during the afternoon off peak to give her a top-up of warmth for example, E7 will potentially work out far more expensive if she continues to do this. If she has older style NSH's then she may find that they "run out of heat" very early in the day, too, off the back of the 7 hour overnight charge. Once you have switched her across to E7 I'd guess getting her switched back again would prove to be impossible so it really is important to be 100% certain that it is the correct decision. 

TeachersPensionNovice

Good call. Even though my mother was sent a letter on 15th of December stating this:


It was nonsense. The current prices are wrong as she was charged less than those. Also, the new prices are wrong as I can see on her latest bill she is actually charged:

• day-rate -> 38.257
• off-peak -> 36.853

Still pretty poor, but not quite as bad as they said it would be.

EssexHebridean

Still both above the capped rate, though. And not high enough to be the rates before the EPG is applied, either. A bit of a strange one. 

The rates you have from her bill though - those are pre-vat I think, and that explains them being lower?

Spoonie_Turtle

TeachersPensionNovice said:

Good call. Even though my mother was sent a letter on 15th of December stating this:


It was nonsense. The current prices are wrong as she was charged less than those. Also, the new prices are wrong as I can see on her latest bill she is actually charged:

• day-rate -> 38.257
• off-peak -> 36.853

Still pretty poor, but not quite as bad as they said it would be.

No, it is as bad as they said, those quoted figures plus VAT match the figures on the letter. 

Edit: does her bill include a separate line anywhere for the Energy Price Guarantee?