Smart meter not coming out of Economy7 - and being charged high rate while high usage devices are on

Gerry1

deano2099 said:

AllanInness said:

Gerry1 said:

Have you established that the meter has genuinely switched to the higher rate but that the E7 switched output is still live, as opposed to the output still being live at a time when you expected it to be lower rate?  Remember that E7 times can vary from day to day, so you'd need to make sure the start time(s) hadn't also shifted,

If the NSH load is really being recorded on the higher rate register, what happens if you switch the E7 circuits off and then back on a few times at the consumer unit?  If this causes the latch to drop out then it's pretty good evidence to support your theory.

Just to be on the safe side, unplug / switch off any sensitive equipment beforehand.

I did a test yesterday and today...    Yesterday I forced a load (turned on another storage heater at 5am) that would continue after the 8am cutoff... it ran until approx 9:30am
Today I switched off all Economy 7 circuits (so no load) just before 8am and it dropped the economy 7 circuit (i couldn't get the current to rise when i switched them back on at 8:20am) 

These experiments are  only measured at the moment from the HID... I await the data from EDF in a couple of days...  but the HID has been a pretty good indicator up until now... (thats how i noticed it)

What you need to figure out is which one is which (so see which one goes up overnight) then check regularly between 8am and 9.30am to see which is going up.

That wouldn't be much use in South East England where the E7 BST hours are 2330 - 0130 and 0330 - 0830.

deano2099

Gerry1 said:

deano2099 said:

AllanInness said:

Gerry1 said:

Have you established that the meter has genuinely switched to the higher rate but that the E7 switched output is still live, as opposed to the output still being live at a time when you expected it to be lower rate?  Remember that E7 times can vary from day to day, so you'd need to make sure the start time(s) hadn't also shifted,

If the NSH load is really being recorded on the higher rate register, what happens if you switch the E7 circuits off and then back on a few times at the consumer unit?  If this causes the latch to drop out then it's pretty good evidence to support your theory.

Just to be on the safe side, unplug / switch off any sensitive equipment beforehand.

I did a test yesterday and today...    Yesterday I forced a load (turned on another storage heater at 5am) that would continue after the 8am cutoff... it ran until approx 9:30am
Today I switched off all Economy 7 circuits (so no load) just before 8am and it dropped the economy 7 circuit (i couldn't get the current to rise when i switched them back on at 8:20am) 

These experiments are  only measured at the moment from the HID... I await the data from EDF in a couple of days...  but the HID has been a pretty good indicator up until now... (thats how i noticed it)

What you need to figure out is which one is which (so see which one goes up overnight) then check regularly between 8am and 9.30am to see which is going up.

That wouldn't be much use in South East England where the E7 BST hours are 2330 - 0130 and 0330 - 0830.

Well no, you'd do it at a different time then. But the OP says it's the hours between 8am and 9.30am he's concerned about so those are the ones to check.

AllanInness

deano2099 said:

AllanInness said:

Gerry1 said:

Have you established that the meter has genuinely switched to the higher rate but that the E7 switched output is still live, as opposed to the output still being live at a time when you expected it to be lower rate?  Remember that E7 times can vary from day to day, so you'd need to make sure the start time(s) hadn't also shifted,

If the NSH load is really being recorded on the higher rate register, what happens if you switch the E7 circuits off and then back on a few times at the consumer unit?  If this causes the latch to drop out then it's pretty good evidence to support your theory.

Just to be on the safe side, unplug / switch off any sensitive equipment beforehand.

I did a test yesterday and today...    Yesterday I forced a load (turned on another storage heater at 5am) that would continue after the 8am cutoff... it ran until approx 9:30am
Today I switched off all Economy 7 circuits (so no load) just before 8am and it dropped the economy 7 circuit (i couldn't get the current to rise when i switched them back on at 8:20am) 

These experiments are  only measured at the moment from the HID... I await the data from EDF in a couple of days...  but the HID has been a pretty good indicator up until now... (thats how i noticed it)

Like you say you're clear on those facts and what's causing it, but I believe that's on purpose to a degree (E7 doesn't kick on/off at the exact same time every day for everyone as that would cause big spikes on the grid).
I had made the same mistaken assumption a few months - that if you have a smart meter on E7, that it would just send the half-hour usage data to your supplier and they would charge you X per unit for usage in E7 hours and Y per unit for usage outside of E7 hours.
But it doesn't work that way - instead the meter has two different readings, one for E7 hours and one for non-E7 hours. You should be able to cycle through those readings on the display. What you need to figure out is which one is which (so see which one goes up overnight) then check regularly between 8am and 9.30am to see which is going up.

You may need to look at the actual meter as I'm not sure how the HID interacts with E7 - if you can't see both meter readings separately then it won't help.

I can understand the switching on being staggered... but the switching off - well there won't be a big spike...  quite the opposite

EssexHebridean

AllanInness said:

deano2099 said:

AllanInness said:

Gerry1 said:

Have you established that the meter has genuinely switched to the higher rate but that the E7 switched output is still live, as opposed to the output still being live at a time when you expected it to be lower rate?  Remember that E7 times can vary from day to day, so you'd need to make sure the start time(s) hadn't also shifted,

If the NSH load is really being recorded on the higher rate register, what happens if you switch the E7 circuits off and then back on a few times at the consumer unit?  If this causes the latch to drop out then it's pretty good evidence to support your theory.

Just to be on the safe side, unplug / switch off any sensitive equipment beforehand.

I did a test yesterday and today...    Yesterday I forced a load (turned on another storage heater at 5am) that would continue after the 8am cutoff... it ran until approx 9:30am
Today I switched off all Economy 7 circuits (so no load) just before 8am and it dropped the economy 7 circuit (i couldn't get the current to rise when i switched them back on at 8:20am) 

These experiments are  only measured at the moment from the HID... I await the data from EDF in a couple of days...  but the HID has been a pretty good indicator up until now... (thats how i noticed it)

Like you say you're clear on those facts and what's causing it, but I believe that's on purpose to a degree (E7 doesn't kick on/off at the exact same time every day for everyone as that would cause big spikes on the grid).
I had made the same mistaken assumption a few months - that if you have a smart meter on E7, that it would just send the half-hour usage data to your supplier and they would charge you X per unit for usage in E7 hours and Y per unit for usage outside of E7 hours.
But it doesn't work that way - instead the meter has two different readings, one for E7 hours and one for non-E7 hours. You should be able to cycle through those readings on the display. What you need to figure out is which one is which (so see which one goes up overnight) then check regularly between 8am and 9.30am to see which is going up.

You may need to look at the actual meter as I'm not sure how the HID interacts with E7 - if you can't see both meter readings separately then it won't help.

I can understand the switching on being staggered... but the switching off - well there won't be a big spike...  quite the opposite

It follows though that if the time of switch on is staggered, then the time of switch off is too. 

Robin9

Alan - have I got this  right ?  Your o/p switches in at 0100.   It should switch off at 0800 but occasionally goes off at 0930.

Isn't that extra 90 mins being charged at the lower night rates and therefore you are saving money

EssexHebridean

I think it could be slightly different - I think the meter is switching on time, but the switch for the E7 circuits isn’t always switching to “off” when it should. So this would mean that the stuff on the E7 circuit continues to run after the rate has changed to peak. Apologies if I’m wrong OP - just trying to cover various bases though! 

AllanInness

EssexHebridean said:

I think it could be slightly different - I think the meter is switching on time, but the switch for the E7 circuits isn’t always switching to “off” when it should. So this would mean that the stuff on the E7 circuit continues to run after the rate has changed to peak. Apologies if I’m wrong OP - just trying to cover various bases though! 

yep spot on...