Smart meter not coming out of Economy7 - and being charged high rate while high usage devices are on

AllanInness

I have been working on this for a little while... 

I have noticed that my smart meter on EDF is not coming out of economy 7 at 8am... and in fact is still running the high usage devices (my heaters and water heater) for upto an hour after the economy 7 ends!!!! 

Thus I am getting charged upto £3 a day for electricity I shouldn't be able to use.!!!

I have read on other forums, that this is not limited to EDF, and that some smart meters on other providers are doing similar. 

This was never a problem (as far as I am aware) on the older type dumb meters, but I never had the data to analyse. 

I have collected every days data (by half hour) since May 2022, and while it wasn't as noticable in the summer (no heating), it was still happening since the smart meter was installed. 

EDF of course are being the ever unhelpful selves (overseas call centres and chatbots... grrrr) 

So I suggest those with smart meters (and especially those with EDF) really look at the usage you have and pay particular attention to the hour 8am - 9am... I know I won't be alone with being over charged.... !!!

lohr500

Which region are you in and are you aware that the off peak times on most Economy 7 tariffs controlled by smart meters are based on GMT. They do not adjust for the GMT/BST time daylight saving shift.

Are your heaters and hot water not wired to a circuit switched by the meter when Eco 7 is active?
If they are controlled by external timers you may need to adjust these to account for the daylight savings hour changes each year. Some timers auto adjust the hour which results in the Eco 7 period being out of sync with the timer settings.

I stand to be corrected, but I would be very surprised if EDF is short changing you on the 7 hour Eco 7 window. 
 

dunstonh

I have noticed that my smart meter on EDF is not coming out of economy 7 at 8am... and in fact is still running the high usage devices (my heaters and water heater) for upto an hour after the economy 7 ends!!!! 

Economy 7 goes by GMT.  It does not go by BST.  So, when the clocks change, economy 7 doesnt change with it.  That could possibly account for the hour difference.

I have read on other forums, that this is not limited to EDF, and that some smart meters on other providers are doing similar. 

I am on economy 7 with a last generation digital meter (not smart meter).  So, everything is done by timers rather than circuits and that too doesnt change when the clocks change.   So, when it becomes 7.30BST it is still 6.30GMT and economy 7 will run on for another hour.

With October going back to GMT, you would expect it to revert back to the default.

I have collected every days data (by half hour) since May 2022, and while it wasn't as noticable in the summer (no heating), it was still happening since the smart meter was installed. 

In the Summer it should have been more noticeable because of BST.  Although your use may have been light.

The other thing that can happen is your timers can go out of sync.   That isnt common with smart meters but was with digital meters.  We are on our second digital meter and both went out of sync. Currently our night rate begins at 8.50am and finishes at 3.50pm.   our timers just get adjusted whenver it moves out of sync and moves on again.

So I suggest those with smart meters (and especially those with EDF) really look at the usage you have and pay particular attention to the hour 8am - 9am... I know I won't be alone with being over charged.... !!!

If it isnt the BST/GMT changeover (which it usually is when someone mentions this) and its a fault then you need to decide if the fault is in your favour, like us, and just adjust your timers to match.  if you are circuit controlled then it doesn't make much difference.

AllanInness

dunstonh said:

I have noticed that my smart meter on EDF is not coming out of economy 7 at 8am... and in fact is still running the high usage devices (my heaters and water heater) for upto an hour after the economy 7 ends!!!! 

Economy 7 goes by GMT.  It does not go by BST.  So, when the clocks change, economy 7 doesnt change with it.  That could possibly account for the hour difference.

I have read on other forums, that this is not limited to EDF, and that some smart meters on other providers are doing similar. 

I am on economy 7 with a last generation digital meter (not smart meter).  So, everything is done by timers rather than circuits and that too doesnt change when the clocks change.   So, when it becomes 7.30BST it is still 6.30GMT and economy 7 will run on for another hour.

With October going back to GMT, you would expect it to revert back to the default.

I have collected every days data (by half hour) since May 2022, and while it wasn't as noticable in the summer (no heating), it was still happening since the smart meter was installed. 

In the Summer it should have been more noticeable because of BST.  Although your use may have been light.

The other thing that can happen is your timers can go out of sync.   That isnt common with smart meters but was with digital meters.  We are on our second digital meter and both went out of sync. Currently our night rate begins at 8.50am and finishes at 3.50pm.   our timers just get adjusted whenver it moves out of sync and moves on again.

So I suggest those with smart meters (and especially those with EDF) really look at the usage you have and pay particular attention to the hour 8am - 9am... I know I won't be alone with being over charged.... !!!

If it isnt the BST/GMT changeover (which it usually is when someone mentions this) and its a fault then you need to decide if the fault is in your favour, like us, and just adjust your timers to match.  if you are circuit controlled then it doesn't make much difference.

Nope...  this is directly to do with the meter not switching off...  some days its 10 minutes, other days its upto an hour...  its the meter thats the problem...

AllanInness

lohr500 said:

Which region are you in and are you aware that the off peak times on most Economy 7 tariffs controlled by smart meters are based on GMT. They do not adjust for the GMT/BST time daylight saving shift.

Are your heaters and hot water not wired to a circuit switched by the meter when Eco 7 is active?
If they are controlled by external timers you may need to adjust these to account for the daylight savings hour changes each year. Some timers auto adjust the hour which results in the Eco 7 period being out of sync with the timer settings.

I stand to be corrected, but I would be very surprised if EDF is short changing you on the 7 hour Eco 7 window. 
 

Im in the midlands...  but this isn't to do with GMT/BST...  its the smart meter "latching" the circuit..  so if there is a load on the circuit it stays active after the 8am deadline passes.  I have no timers on the heating or the hot water...  its just controlled by the smart meter.  Thus the meter is the issue...  How many others?

EssexHebridean

AllanInness said:

dunstonh said:

I have noticed that my smart meter on EDF is not coming out of economy 7 at 8am... and in fact is still running the high usage devices (my heaters and water heater) for upto an hour after the economy 7 ends!!!! 

Economy 7 goes by GMT.  It does not go by BST.  So, when the clocks change, economy 7 doesnt change with it.  That could possibly account for the hour difference.

I have read on other forums, that this is not limited to EDF, and that some smart meters on other providers are doing similar. 

I am on economy 7 with a last generation digital meter (not smart meter).  So, everything is done by timers rather than circuits and that too doesnt change when the clocks change.   So, when it becomes 7.30BST it is still 6.30GMT and economy 7 will run on for another hour.

With October going back to GMT, you would expect it to revert back to the default.

I have collected every days data (by half hour) since May 2022, and while it wasn't as noticable in the summer (no heating), it was still happening since the smart meter was installed. 

In the Summer it should have been more noticeable because of BST.  Although your use may have been light.

The other thing that can happen is your timers can go out of sync.   That isnt common with smart meters but was with digital meters.  We are on our second digital meter and both went out of sync. Currently our night rate begins at 8.50am and finishes at 3.50pm.   our timers just get adjusted whenver it moves out of sync and moves on again.

So I suggest those with smart meters (and especially those with EDF) really look at the usage you have and pay particular attention to the hour 8am - 9am... I know I won't be alone with being over charged.... !!!

If it isnt the BST/GMT changeover (which it usually is when someone mentions this) and its a fault then you need to decide if the fault is in your favour, like us, and just adjust your timers to match.  if you are circuit controlled then it doesn't make much difference.

Nope...  this is directly to do with the meter not switching off...  some days its 10 minutes, other days its upto an hour...  its the meter thats the problem...

If the meter is still clocking up use on the off-peak rate, that should be what you are being charged. I would start taking daily readings (or using something like Bright to keep track) myself and see if those marry up with what is billed. 

Out of interest - can you confirm how many cables emerge from the bottom of the SM, and whether they are “thick” or “thin” ones? A picture of the meter might also assist. 

AllanInness

EssexHebridean said:

AllanInness said:

dunstonh said:

I have noticed that my smart meter on EDF is not coming out of economy 7 at 8am... and in fact is still running the high usage devices (my heaters and water heater) for upto an hour after the economy 7 ends!!!! 

Economy 7 goes by GMT.  It does not go by BST.  So, when the clocks change, economy 7 doesnt change with it.  That could possibly account for the hour difference.

I have read on other forums, that this is not limited to EDF, and that some smart meters on other providers are doing similar. 

I am on economy 7 with a last generation digital meter (not smart meter).  So, everything is done by timers rather than circuits and that too doesnt change when the clocks change.   So, when it becomes 7.30BST it is still 6.30GMT and economy 7 will run on for another hour.

With October going back to GMT, you would expect it to revert back to the default.

I have collected every days data (by half hour) since May 2022, and while it wasn't as noticable in the summer (no heating), it was still happening since the smart meter was installed. 

In the Summer it should have been more noticeable because of BST.  Although your use may have been light.

The other thing that can happen is your timers can go out of sync.   That isnt common with smart meters but was with digital meters.  We are on our second digital meter and both went out of sync. Currently our night rate begins at 8.50am and finishes at 3.50pm.   our timers just get adjusted whenver it moves out of sync and moves on again.

So I suggest those with smart meters (and especially those with EDF) really look at the usage you have and pay particular attention to the hour 8am - 9am... I know I won't be alone with being over charged.... !!!

If it isnt the BST/GMT changeover (which it usually is when someone mentions this) and its a fault then you need to decide if the fault is in your favour, like us, and just adjust your timers to match.  if you are circuit controlled then it doesn't make much difference.

Nope...  this is directly to do with the meter not switching off...  some days its 10 minutes, other days its upto an hour...  its the meter thats the problem...

If the meter is still clocking up use on the off-peak rate, that should be what you are being charged. I would start taking daily readings (or using something like Bright to keep track) myself and see if those marry up with what is billed. 

Out of interest - can you confirm how many cables emerge from the bottom of the SM, and whether they are “thick” or “thin” ones? A picture of the meter might also assist. 

There are 5 cables...  they are approx 12mm thick....  not sure what each does  I guess some are input others are output... and 1 will be the economy7 output.   

I did a test the last 2 days...  yesterday I put on a storage heater at 5am (knowing that it wouldn't be fully charged at 8am) and the economy 7 circuit switched off approx 9:30am     Today i ensured no heaters or hot water were on (physically switched off all the high usage devices before 8am) and the circuit dropped at 8am...  so its load related..  I believe this is called "latching", but the meter should actually just drop the circuit at 8am.

Scrounger

Hi, I had a similar E7 overcharging problem with EDF last year (though my timings were not affected by loading):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79131957#Comment_79131957

EDF eventually replaced the meter (and paid £150 compensation).

If you're sure of your facts (you need to monitor the registers at the meter during switchover time) you need to raise a complaint with EDF.


Scrounger

AllanInness

Scrounger said:

Hi, I had a similar E7 overcharging problem with EDF last year (though my timings were not affected by loading):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79131957#Comment_79131957

EDF eventually replaced the meter (and paid £150 compensation).

If you're sure of your facts (you need to monitor the registers at the meter during switchover time) you need to raise a complaint with EDF.


Scrounger

I am sure of my facts...  and I have just calculated that in 7 months I have been overcharged by £90 (plus VAT)  just for the 1 hour !!!

Scrounger

AllanInness said:
I am sure of my facts...  

Then time to raise a complaint - make sure you get a reference number.


Scrounger

[Deleted User]

Hi,

AllanInness said:

I have noticed that my smart meter on EDF is not coming out of economy 7 at 8am... and in fact is still running the high usage devices (my heaters and water heater) for upto an hour after the economy 7 ends!!!

well that is to your advantage, if meter doesn't switch then you are still on the cheaper night rate.
You said "Thus I am getting charged upto £3 a day for electricity I shouldn't be able to use.!!!"

Then you said "I am sure of my facts...  and I have just calculated that in 7 months I have been overcharged by £90 (plus VAT)  just for the 1 hour !!"

Are you so sure of your facts?