Smart meter not coming out of Economy7 - and being charged high rate while high usage devices are on

AllanInness

Just looking at the EDF data (Yellow highlight is when Economy 7 should be off) and comparing with the hours later..  £29.48 over payment for just December !!!!    How many more "Smart meters" are doing this ?

AllanInness

Scrounger said:

AllanInness said:
I am sure of my facts...  

Then time to raise a complaint - make sure you get a reference number.


Scrounger

Hi,

who did you speak to?

I have tried raising a complaint and the overseas team are useless... im onto the 5th person already !!! 
Now they want me to call a number... and hopefully speak to someone ?   (They say that they are very busy at the moment, so can I call in a week or so !!!! )

Scrounger

Email: ComplaintResolution@edfenergy.com

Scrounger

lohr500

From the description of your meter, you have what is known as a 5 wire meter with a full current internal contactor that should enable the dedicated fifth wire Economy 7 output live cable only during the Economy 7 period. 

From your investigation, it does sound as though the switching relay is faulty and holding the Economy 7 feed after the cut off time, possibly until the load through the relay drops, hence the variable cut off time.

If the internal clock is correct in the meter and the peak/off peak times have been uploaded to it correctly, then I can see how you would be charged at peak rate for anything that is still drawing current on the 5th cable dedicated Economy 7 circuit after the time that it should have disconnected.

The internal meter registers for peak and off peak just measure the total kWh usage flowing through the meter at the peak and off peak times.  Not the separate flow to each of the two live outputs.

Gerry1

Have you established that the meter has genuinely switched to the higher rate but that the E7 switched output is still live, as opposed to the output still being live at a time when you expected it to be lower rate?  Remember that E7 times can vary from day to day, so you'd need to make sure the start time(s) hadn't also shifted,

If the NSH load is really being recorded on the higher rate register, what happens if you switch the E7 circuits off and then back on a few times at the consumer unit?  If this causes the latch to drop out then it's pretty good evidence to support your theory.

Just to be on the safe side, unplug / switch off any sensitive equipment beforehand.

AllanInness

Gerry1 said:

Have you established that the meter has genuinely switched to the higher rate but that the E7 switched output is still live, as opposed to the output still being live at a time when you expected it to be lower rate?  Remember that E7 times can vary from day to day, so you'd need to make sure the start time(s) hadn't also shifted,

If the NSH load is really being recorded on the higher rate register, what happens if you switch the E7 circuits off and then back on a few times at the consumer unit?  If this causes the latch to drop out then it's pretty good evidence to support your theory.

Just to be on the safe side, unplug / switch off any sensitive equipment beforehand.

I did a test yesterday and today...    Yesterday I forced a load (turned on another storage heater at 5am) that would continue after the 8am cutoff... it ran until approx 9:30am
Today I switched off all Economy 7 circuits (so no load) just before 8am and it dropped the economy 7 circuit (i couldn't get the current to rise when i switched them back on at 8:20am) 

These experiments are  only measured at the moment from the HID... I await the data from EDF in a couple of days...  but the HID has been a pretty good indicator up until now... (thats how i noticed it)

AllanInness

Latest...  I have raised a complaint with EDF... now they want me to take pictures of the meter just before 8 and just after..   bearing in mind they only read the smart meter every 30 minutes, and that in 10 minutes its unlikely to show any difference in readings...  I feel this is just another delaying tactic.   I will however provide them with these pointless pictures.    I have a feeling that EDF are fully aware of the problem and that they have no solution.. but to just keep over billing people.

EssexHebridean

I'm guessing they want to see what it displays on the screen of the meter itself at those times. 

deano2099

AllanInness said:

Gerry1 said:

Have you established that the meter has genuinely switched to the higher rate but that the E7 switched output is still live, as opposed to the output still being live at a time when you expected it to be lower rate?  Remember that E7 times can vary from day to day, so you'd need to make sure the start time(s) hadn't also shifted,

If the NSH load is really being recorded on the higher rate register, what happens if you switch the E7 circuits off and then back on a few times at the consumer unit?  If this causes the latch to drop out then it's pretty good evidence to support your theory.

Just to be on the safe side, unplug / switch off any sensitive equipment beforehand.

I did a test yesterday and today...    Yesterday I forced a load (turned on another storage heater at 5am) that would continue after the 8am cutoff... it ran until approx 9:30am
Today I switched off all Economy 7 circuits (so no load) just before 8am and it dropped the economy 7 circuit (i couldn't get the current to rise when i switched them back on at 8:20am) 

These experiments are  only measured at the moment from the HID... I await the data from EDF in a couple of days...  but the HID has been a pretty good indicator up until now... (thats how i noticed it)

Like you say you're clear on those facts and what's causing it, but I believe that's on purpose to a degree (E7 doesn't kick on/off at the exact same time every day for everyone as that would cause big spikes on the grid).
I had made the same mistaken assumption a few months - that if you have a smart meter on E7, that it would just send the half-hour usage data to your supplier and they would charge you X per unit for usage in E7 hours and Y per unit for usage outside of E7 hours.
But it doesn't work that way - instead the meter has two different readings, one for E7 hours and one for non-E7 hours. You should be able to cycle through those readings on the display. What you need to figure out is which one is which (so see which one goes up overnight) then check regularly between 8am and 9.30am to see which is going up.

You may need to look at the actual meter as I'm not sure how the HID interacts with E7 - if you can't see both meter readings separately then it won't help.

dunstonh

AllanInness said:

Latest...  I have raised a complaint with EDF... now they want me to take pictures of the meter just before 8 and just after..   bearing in mind they only read the smart meter every 30 minutes, and that in 10 minutes its unlikely to show any difference in readings...  I feel this is just another delaying tactic.   I will however provide them with these pointless pictures.    I have a feeling that EDF are fully aware of the problem and that they have no solution.. but to just keep over billing people.

The screen will display which register is in play at that moment in time.