House buying - query between what I thought I was buying and what they've decided

TheJP

Button83 said:

If something is listed on the right move listing as being part of the selling point 
I.e a log burner - right move says entering the lounge with exposed wood beam and log burner 

Would you think that was included in the sale? The agent was telling me how warm the room is when done.so in my thinking it was coming with

We've asked about the log burner because of the survey and they have said they can't find the Heftas cert but they will take it with them with moving.

Part of the reason I was buying it was because of the log burner

Would I be within my rights to ask for a reduction in the selling price for this?

Have you exchanged?

Legally no the advert isn't binding, the fixtures and fittings list included in contract AT exchange is. Have they noted in the F&F form that they are taking it? If as others have said the only reason they are taking it is because they don't have the relevant certificates based on your survey, you could look into having it checked out yourself and ask that it remains.

If they still want to take it you have 3 options;

1. Request it stays or ask for a reduction to the value of having one installed (doubtful you can asked for full price of a bran new shiny one but that of the current used value).

2. They refuse, proceed with the sale and have one fitted at your own cost.

3. If they refuse, pull out.

ThisIsWeird

As the JP says, I believe. Although not legally binding (and vendors can change their mind up to the Fix&Fit form/exchange anyway), it seems clear it was part of the intended original sale. 

Why they've changed their mind is unknown - a lack of Hetas cert is not, in itself, a valid reason; there must be tensofthousands on non-Hetas stoves fitted in this country, quite safely, and no-one is going to force certification on them (unless the law changes...)

I wonder if they simply fancy taking it, or perhaps fear the cost if a retro-Hetas check is insisted on? Whatever the reason, it surely justifies up to a £2k-ish negotiation (or more, if a flue lining is required, or even a chimney extension).

They certainly do not 'need' to take it - it is simply their decision here to do so. They could still include it in the F&F form, adding 'untested' or 'new owner is advised to...', just the same as with a boiler or electrical check. I mean, when was the last time a vendor responded to a request for a 'Gas Safety Cert' by  saying it doesn't have one, so were are taking the boiler with us?

Any chance of a pic of the stove from the particulars? 

TheJP

ThisIsWeird said:

As the JP says, I believe. Although not legally binding (and vendors can change their mind up to the Fix&Fit form anyway), it seems clear it was part of the original intended sale. 

Why they've changed their mind is unknown - a lack of Hetas cert is not, in itself a valid reason; there must be tensofthousands on non-Hetas stoves fitted in this country, quite safely, and no-one is going to force certification on them.

I wonder if they simply fancy taking it, or fear the cost if a retro-Hetas check is insisted on? Whatever the reason, it surely justifies up to a £2k-ish negotiation (or more, if a flue lining is required, or even a chimney extension).

Any chance of a pic of the stove from the particulars? 

Another thing i always do when making my offer is that it is conditional on the basis that XYZ stay. When i sold my last property my TV is fitted to the wall, in the F&F i made sure to be clear this was coming with me. The buyers son demanded it stayed as it is deemed a permanent fixture of the house and that if this was the case his mother wouldn't have offered on the house. I highlighted that the TV was not mentioned in the offer alongside the other items the offer included. I'm in my new house watching the same TV but fitted to a different wall.

OP you need to get clarification as to the why and it would be helpful to know what stage of the sale you are in. Have you spoken to the vendors via the EA about this?

sheramber

ThisIsWeird said:

As the JP says, I believe. Although not legally binding (and vendors can change their mind up to the Fix&Fit form/exchange anyway), it seems clear it was part of the intended original sale. 

Why they've changed their mind is unknown - a lack of Hetas cert is not, in itself, a valid reason; there must be tensofthousands on non-Hetas stoves fitted in this country, quite safely, and no-one is going to force certification on them (unless the law changes...)

I wonder if they simply fancy taking it, or perhaps fear the cost if a retro-Hetas check is insisted on? Whatever the reason, it surely justifies up to a £2k-ish negotiation (or more, if a flue lining is required, or even a chimney extension).

They certainly do not 'need' to take it - it is simply their decision here to do so. They could still include it in the F&F form, adding 'untested' or 'new owner is advised to...', just the same as with a boiler or electrical check. I mean, when was the last time a vendor responded to a request for a 'Gas Safety Cert' by  saying it doesn't have one, so were are taking the boiler with us?

Any chance of a pic of the stove from the particulars? 

Lack of certificate may be an  insurance issue in the event of a claim for damage caused by the stove.

My neighbour lost her  house to fire due to stove flue igniting  the joists in the attic.  It was an installation by a Hetas registered firm so she was covered by that.

user1977

sheramber said:

ThisIsWeird said:

As the JP says, I believe. Although not legally binding (and vendors can change their mind up to the Fix&Fit form/exchange anyway), it seems clear it was part of the intended original sale. 

Why they've changed their mind is unknown - a lack of Hetas cert is not, in itself, a valid reason; there must be tensofthousands on non-Hetas stoves fitted in this country, quite safely, and no-one is going to force certification on them (unless the law changes...)

I wonder if they simply fancy taking it, or perhaps fear the cost if a retro-Hetas check is insisted on? Whatever the reason, it surely justifies up to a £2k-ish negotiation (or more, if a flue lining is required, or even a chimney extension).

They certainly do not 'need' to take it - it is simply their decision here to do so. They could still include it in the F&F form, adding 'untested' or 'new owner is advised to...', just the same as with a boiler or electrical check. I mean, when was the last time a vendor responded to a request for a 'Gas Safety Cert' by  saying it doesn't have one, so were are taking the boiler with us?

Any chance of a pic of the stove from the particulars? 

Lack of certificate may be an  insurance issue in the event of a claim for damage caused by the stove.

I don't see why it would, unless the insurer had asked the question in the first place (who does that?) and you had given a false answer.

DwightSchrute

We had the exact same thing with the vendors when we bought our house a year ago. They wanted to take their bespoke wood burner with them. We said fine (calling their bluff, we wanted to keep it) but you will make good including the ceiling boards and roof (flue is exposed) and will have it properly inspected once work is complete as we knew they would bodge it themselves. They realised it would be a lot of effort so left it. We've subsequently had it fully cleaned, inspected and certified so will satisfy any insurance company.

Domaco16

We had a log burning stove and a gorgeous mantle. I was gutted to leave it! 

We had it installed in 2007 ish and had no certificate when we sold last year. We said to them if it’s a problem we will take it with us but they said it was fine and it stayed. 

I thought the EPC ( or whatever the energy certificate is called) takes in account those kind of things and they obviously help heat up the home. 

I would expect it to stay tho and be part of the house  

Olinda99

Most (all) estate agents specifically state that their sales particulars do not form part of the sales contract.

The vendors are perfectly entitled to take their log burner with them. Equally, you are perfectly entitled to amend your offer at any time.

ThisIsWeird

sheramber said:

ThisIsWeird said:

As the JP says, I believe. Although not legally binding (and vendors can change their mind up to the Fix&Fit form/exchange anyway), it seems clear it was part of the intended original sale. 

Why they've changed their mind is unknown - a lack of Hetas cert is not, in itself, a valid reason; there must be tensofthousands on non-Hetas stoves fitted in this country, quite safely, and no-one is going to force certification on them (unless the law changes...)

I wonder if they simply fancy taking it, or perhaps fear the cost if a retro-Hetas check is insisted on? Whatever the reason, it surely justifies up to a £2k-ish negotiation (or more, if a flue lining is required, or even a chimney extension).

They certainly do not 'need' to take it - it is simply their decision here to do so. They could still include it in the F&F form, adding 'untested' or 'new owner is advised to...', just the same as with a boiler or electrical check. I mean, when was the last time a vendor responded to a request for a 'Gas Safety Cert' by  saying it doesn't have one, so were are taking the boiler with us?

Any chance of a pic of the stove from the particulars? 

Lack of certificate may be an  insurance issue in the event of a claim for damage caused by the stove.

My neighbour lost her  house to fire due to stove flue igniting  the joists in the attic.  It was an installation by a Hetas registered firm so she was covered by that.

Yes, it 'may'.

I would suggest it would come down to the actual cause of the fire - if it was down to incorrect installation, then the assessor would likely have something to say, regardless of certification. Similar to incorrect use such as leaving the fire door open and unattended.

In essence, a correctly installed, serviced, and operated stove shouldn't cause a fire, regardless of certification. Lack of certification in itself would not be the cause of any fire. If something truly unforeseeable occured where the owner was not negligent - I dunno, the stove side split open - then it should still be covered even if not Hetas'd. 'Should'.

But, you make a good point - in your friend's case the installation was seemingly at fault, but they were still covered due to the Hetas cert. I wonder if they chased the installer?!

Sapindus

They are as good as admitting that they realise it sounded like was included, by saying "we can't find the certificate".  Otherwise they would say "you don't need the certificate, we're taking it with us".

Our sales description said "A gas fire is fitted".  Wasn't til we moved in we realised it was just sat in the fireplace and not even plumbed in. At least you've found out now.  If it was me, I would make a bit of thing about it and say "oh - we thought it was included, that was a big plus point for us..." and let them sweat a bit, even if you don't think a reduction will result.  Puts them on the back foot if something else comes up....