Stopping in bus stop - Quorum Business Park - Private Land £60 for 3 mins! Excel Parking CCTV

Biketruck

My new Gym (Pure Gym) has a Greggs opposite it. There's a bus stop right outside Greggs. On the way out at about 8am I stopped in the bus stop ran in a got a can of coke. Probably 3 mins. Did this for twice in the week. This is Private Land - controlled by Excel Parking. I then worked abroad for 8 weeks and come home to a shedload of nasty PCN's for £60 each - with images. This is a relatively quiet Business Park outside of Newcastle - and although I know you're not to stop in a bus stop - I'd never have imagined that you would be 'trapped' like this - it's like a honey trap to the people leaving the gym - nipping into Greggs. Although guilty of a few minutes, surely this is EXCESSIVE in terms of the charge AND surely this can be seen as entrapment? Researching EXCEL I find that they have a chequered history of clamping including court appearances over behavior etc. Not sure what to do? Hate to pay this to these scum bags who are feeding on people - especially in these times when money is hard to come by - £120 could be spent elsewhere. Any advice anyone? Remember - this is 'stopping' NOT parking - so it's a tad different than all the other ones I've read. 
Thanks in advance.

Grizebeck

How many pcns

DE_612183

I think the difference is between "parking" and "loading/unloading" - I would say going into Greggs and buying a sausage roll is Loading!

By the way - have you looked at the Newbees thread?

Biketruck

Two PCNs but letters - basically all the same - image of me outside Greggs 'Final Reminder - Do Not Ignore'. 

Biketruck

DE_612183 said:

I think the difference is between "parking" and "loading/unloading" - I would say going into Greggs and buying a sausage roll is Loading!

By the way - have you looked at the Newbees thread?

Yes - I've trawled the pages and to be honest - find it all quite confusing. I'm only 65 and thought I was all over this stuff - but maybe am just a bid dim!

I've got 2 PCN's 60 quid each and about 4 reminders - But i was working in Australia for the last 8 weeks - so only catching up on mail now.

From reading - I suspect that my only chance is to say that 60 quid for 3 mins is excessive - and that such practice is certainly not the NORM in the North East of England. Such a set up looks rather predatory and certainly smells of using the bus stop to make money. 

B789

Biketruck said:

From reading - I suspect that my only chance is to say that 60 quid for 3 mins is excessive - and that such practice is certainly not the NORM in the North East of England. Such a set up looks rather predatory and certainly smells of using the bus stop to make money. 

You won't get anywhere with that argument. Of all the cases on here that are successful, you only have to read how much effort was put into getting all the necessary detail required to defend these PCN's. If it appears that you have not put much effort into reading through this forum, considered all the details, put as much effort as possible into your research and applied common sense then you will fail.

The only way to succeed with the wealth of information and the efforts of the main contributors of advice is to put in as much preparation as you can. Preparation is the only way you'll succeed.

So far... it would appear that you have not done your homework on this forum.

sevenhills

On a public road, the bus stop needs to be marked, in order for it to be an offence.

fisherjim

sevenhills said:

On a public road, the bus stop needs to be marked, in order for it to be an offence.

This isn't a public road it's a private road however your correct that signage is a key point for which the OP would need their own dated photos for evidence.

The bus stop is here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.0202714,-1.5826263,3a,45y,117.38h,87.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swXIG-Lq_rwb6NgyTAu73aQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Coupon-mad

sevenhills said:

On a public road, the bus stop needs to be marked, in order for it to be an offence.

But this isn't a public road.  Anything goes, until the rogue parking industry is regulated in a year's time.

From reading - I suspect that my only chance is to say that 60 quid for 3 mins is excessive - and that such practice is certainly not the NORM in the North East of England. Such a set up looks rather predatory and certainly smells of using the bus stop to make money. 

Nope, bin that idea. You didn't read that here!

As B789 correctly says, that went out with the infamous ParkingEye v Beavis case in 2015, which went to the Supreme Court.

Your case for dispute is about unclear warning signage and predatory filming, plus lack of grace period, but you won't win by appealing.  There is no real consumer appeal system despite what they say. It is a farce. The industry is rotten and is about to be brought to book by the Government with a statutory regime snd properly independent appeals service (in about a year).

Just respond to Excel once only and keep proof of disputing these PCNs, stating that the signage at that point outside Greggs is (negligently or deliberately) inadequate, there is nothing to inform a driver about CCTV or how it will be used to penalise drivers who so much as stop.  No grace period was allowed, contrary to the outgoing IPC CoP and the new DLUHC statutory Code coming in, which requires a mandatory 5 minute consideration period.


...then ignore Excel's demands which will go up - but not really because you won't be PAYING them! - to £170 per PCN. You know this already from when you read the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread.

Tell Excel if you move house within 6 years.

Come back to this thread if ever you get a county court claim.  Read a few Excel claim threads and you'll see why this is OK.  The only reason to respond now is to set the scene for your later defence.  Looks far more reasonable to Judges, who generally look badly at ignorers.

You can ALWAYS try Plan A - as per the first post of the NEWBIES thread . A complaint to whoever owns/rubs the retail park and contracted Excel. And try a complaint also to the Gym and to the Greggs Manager.

I think you'll find you are not the only one and that they hate this scam.  The landowner/retail park property agents who run the place CAN cancel PCNs (usually costs them a tenner to cover the admin, so you could offer to pay that) and even if they refuse to step in, they need to hear your wrath, in writing/email.

Get on the case!

Biketruck

Biketruck said:

From reading - I suspect that my only chance is to say that 60 quid for 3 mins is excessive - and that such practice is certainly not the NORM in the North East of England. Such a set up looks rather predatory and certainly smells of using the bus stop to make money. 

You won't get anywhere with that argument. Of all the cases on here that are successful, you only have to read how much effort was put into getting all the necessary detail required to defend these PCN's. If it appears that you have not put much effort into reading through this forum, considered all the details, put as much effort as possible into your research and applied common sense then you will fail.

The only way to succeed with the wealth of information and the efforts of the main contributors of advice is to put in as much preparation as you can. Preparation is the only way you'll succeed.

So far... it would appear that you have not done your homework on this forum.

Thanks for the input. I've spent a fair bit of time on researching here and various other places - but as said before, found a fair amount of contradictory and confusing advice, and being sure of what's the most up-to-date - is difficult as the threads go back a long way. For example, lots of places state that new rules limit fines to £50 for each PCN - while others say nope! Others talk about the 'loss to the landlord' is relative to the penalty - that's where I got the idea that 3 or 4 minutes in a no-stopping layby didn't equate in common sense terms to £60 compensation to the landlord. But I get where you're coming from - I'm new to this and the internet is awash with advisors. 
I expect that the likes of Excel rely on people looking at the time versus fine - and give up. 
Cheers
Billy

Biketruck

Coupon-mad said:

sevenhills said:

On a public road, the bus stop needs to be marked, in order for it to be an offence.

But this isn't a public road.  Anything goes, until the rogue parking industry is regulated in a year's time.

From reading - I suspect that my only chance is to say that 60 quid for 3 mins is excessive - and that such practice is certainly not the NORM in the North East of England. Such a set up looks rather predatory and certainly smells of using the bus stop to make money. 

Nope, bin that idea. You didn't read that here!

As B789 correctly says, that went out with the infamous ParkingEye v Beavis case in 2015, which went to the Supreme Court.

Your case for dispute is about unclear warning signage and predatory filming, plus lack of grace period, but you won't win by appealing.  There is no real consumer appeal system despite what they say. It is a farce. The industry is rotten and is about to be brought to book by the Government with a statutory regime snd properly independent appeals service (in about a year).

Just respond to Excel once only and keep proof of disputing these PCNs, stating that the signage at that point outside Greggs is (negligently or deliberately) inadequate, there is nothing to inform a driver about CCTV or how it will be used to penalise drivers who so much as stop.  No grace period was allowed, contrary to the outgoing IPC CoP and the new DLUHC statutory Code coming in, which requires a mandatory 5 minute consideration period.


...then ignore Excel's demands which will go up - but not really because you won't be PAYING them! - to £170 per PCN. You know this already from when you read the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread.

Tell Excel if you move house within 6 years.

Come back to this thread if ever you get a county court claim.  Read a few Excel claim threads and you'll see why this is OK.  The only reason to respond now is to set the scene for your later defence.  Looks far more reasonable to Judges, who generally look badly at ignorers.

You can ALWAYS try Plan A - as per the first post of the NEWBIES thread . A complaint to whoever owns/rubs the retail park and contracted Excel. And try a complaint also to the Gym and to the Greggs Manager.

I think you'll find you are not the only one and that they hate this scam.  The landowner/retail park property agents who run the place CAN cancel PCNs (usually costs them a tenner to cover the admin, so you could offer to pay that) and even if they refuse to step in, they need to hear your wrath, in writing/email.

Get on the case!

Cheers - that all makes perfect sense. Really appreciate this info and advice. It's boiling my blood to think that with todays economy being so fooked and my mortgage which has increased 4 fold, not to mention gas and electricity - that scum like these can suck the blood from ordinary people with honey traps like this.  I'll give it a go and see where I end up. 
Thanks again