URGENT request for advice on defence against Britannia Parking (BW Legal)

Mahule2

Coupon-mad said:

Oh dear.  You abandoned your main defence point.  This wasn't your burden to prove.

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT abandon the point that you did pay and display and Britannia know this because you appealed. They also know it because it IS in the machine log, somewhere.

State that you think they provided a log from the wrong machine and you put them to 'strict proof' of all three machine logs because at best, this is a VRM keying error that parking firms are required to look for, identify and cancel PCNs on appeal (or preferably not issue term for keying errors at all).  This is a requirement of the BPA Code of Practice 'keying errors' section and the new Government statutory CoP, which is stalled temporarily but IS coming in, and the terms and rules are well known to BPA member firms like Britannia and are not affected by the current legal challenge delay.

now I am facing a bill of £300 before the court even started.

Errmm...you realise if you lose (as long as you act reasonably, attend the hearing and get a WS in) you'd pay LESS?!

Why do people think it's more.  Obviously the claim is unreasonably inflated by £70 fake 'DRA recovery fee' (that Britannia did not pay...) and extortionate interest.

Canny Judges don't grant all that!

Crack on with adapting the exemplar WS by @aphex007

Is the partial landowner authority that you were sent, with the RIGHT Britannia (full name matches the name on the claim form exactly - word for word?).

Thank you, Coupon-mad. I do hope that the point 4) mentioned earlier will allow me to expand on that (mention it in my WS and send any other proofs related to that. I will mention the wrong machine as you suggested and will request a log of all 3 machines. You took a big worry of my shoulders by mentioning that I might actually pay less even if I loose. Back in July BP claimed £166.56 plus Court Fee £35.00 and Solicitor Costs £50.00. I will keep trying to find the WS you mention. Also, to answer your question about the names: The claim form says the claimant is Britannia Parking Group Ltd t/a Britannia Parking. The lease agreement says Britannia Parking Limited, their photos of the Pay & Display signs show the car park is operated by The Britannia Parking Group. 

KeithP

Mahule2 said:

Coupon-mad said:

Oh dear.  You abandoned your main defence point.  This wasn't your burden to prove.

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT abandon the point that you did pay and display and Britannia know this because you appealed. They also know it because it IS in the machine log, somewhere.

State that you think they provided a log from the wrong machine and you put them to 'strict proof' of all three machine logs because at best, this is a VRM keying error that parking firms are required to look for, identify and cancel PCNs on appeal (or preferably not issue term for keying errors at all).  This is a requirement of the BPA Code of Practice 'keying errors' section and the new Government statutory CoP, which is stalled temporarily but IS coming in, and the terms and rules are well known to BPA member firms like Britannia and are not affected by the current legal challenge delay.

now I am facing a bill of £300 before the court even started.

Errmm...you realise if you lose (as long as you act reasonably, attend the hearing and get a WS in) you'd pay LESS?!

Why do people think it's more.  Obviously the claim is unreasonably inflated by £70 fake 'DRA recovery fee' (that Britannia did not pay...) and extortionate interest.

Canny Judges don't grant all that!

Crack on with adapting the exemplar WS by @aphex007

Is the partial landowner authority that you were sent, with the RIGHT Britannia (full name matches the name on the claim form exactly - word for word?).

I will keep trying to find the WS you mention.

@aphex007 has only one discussion/thread to his name. That's the one you need to read.

Coupon-mad

I will keep trying to find the WS you mention. 

His ONE thread is linked in in his profile!  Takes less than a second to hop there.  Obviously don't copy his FIRST draft WS...

Also, to answer your question about the names: The claim form says the claimant is Britannia Parking Group Ltd t/a Britannia Parking. The lease agreement says Britannia Parking Limited, their photos of the Pay & Display signs show the car park is operated by The Britannia Parking Group. 

What about the name & company number on the bottom of the NTK?

Mouse007

When Lady Seagull speaks, sit up, take notice and do as you are told.

Mahule2

Mouse007 said:

Mahule2 said:

... I abonded the 'I paid and displayed' approach due to not having any proof. ...

.... 4) I believed that was an administrative error as I paid.

I hope you didn't abandon that point, does your 4) rescue it?

Just because you don't have physical evidence which you refer to as "proof" does not mean you can not use it as a defence point. Your word, you saying it, is evidence. If the judge believes you are a credible witness, why wouldn't they? then your word may be enough.

You returned to your car, there was no PCN affixed to it, you assumed you were good to go... and had no further need for the ticket that you purchased and displayed.

Thank you. I never thought about the evidence like that.  Can I use the last paragraph in my defence even though the carpark is ANPR operated, not human operated?

Mahule2

Coupon-mad said:

will attach all of the evidence when sending my defence documents.

You aren't sending defence docs. You are at WS stage and the regulars here told you how to do that bundle and we linked you to the profile that has the WS everyone adapts.

You realise you chose to reply to the one person who has just this ONE POST on this forum? Just because a person gives a long reply doesn't mean that's the reply to hang your hat on.  In fact it's not a bad reply and I mean no personal criticism (we all started somewhere) but be aware that reply is from an unknown (brand new) poster - and they are newer to posting than you are!

We get parking firms posting here - beware.  You should really be concentrating on the advice you get from those with thousands of posts. I have over 100k posts over more than 15 years here, for example.

Mouse007 is fine too, with over 700 posts and is here most days advising people.

You mention I am only at WS stage (PS: thanks, finally found Aphex's post) but the CF letter seems to suggest otherwise.



Thank you for your warning about newbie posters advices. I will bear that in mind.

One more clarification, please. I know the SAR was supposed to be done at earlier stage but I've now done it. The advice said to also email the legal firm. Is there still a point? And if so, should I mention the point a) at this stage? Thank you.

(a) I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017.
(b) I have sent your client a SAR

Mouse007

Mahule2 said:

Thank you. I never thought about the evidence like that.  Can I use the last paragraph in my defence even though the carpark is ANPR operated, not human operated?

Of course you can - the purpose of displaying your ticket was to show you had paid. The presumption must be that a patrolling parking attendant would be able to see and check it.

Why else were you required to display a ticket? Think about that question.

When you returned to your car, to find there was no PCN notice attached thereto, what reason would you have to retain the ticket which had presumably done is job of preventing a PCN being issued?

Why should you speculate about how they enforce parking? ANPR or foot patrol.

So while I suspect this is actually about keying your VRN into the ticket machine - you have not mentioned this which suggests neither has the claimant. Without VRN entry how does the claimant know whether or not you paid and displayed? Do they have photos?

Umkomaas

One more clarification, please. I know the SAR was supposed to be done at earlier stage but I've now done it. The advice said to also email the legal firm. Is there still a point? And if so, should I mention the point a) at this stage? Thank you.

(a) I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017.
(b) I have sent your client a SAR

That only applied at the Letter of Claim stage, which you are now well past. The in-play court claim cannot be stopped.  Your focus must be entirely on the emailing of your Witness Statement and your Evidence bundle to the court to which your hearing is allocated (not the Northampton CCBC) and to the solicitors representing the parking company. The deadline date appears from the above photo to be 11th January 2023. There is no 'slack' in that date. Fail to meet the deadline is more than likely to result in a judgment in default against you, with all the costs being claimed, awarded in the Claimant's favour. 

Mahule2

Coupon-mad said:

I will keep trying to find the WS you mention. 

His ONE thread is linked in in his profile!  Takes less than a second to hop there.  Obviously don't copy his FIRST draft WS...

Also, to answer your question about the names: The claim form says the claimant is Britannia Parking Group Ltd t/a Britannia Parking. The lease agreement says Britannia Parking Limited, their photos of the Pay & Display signs show the car park is operated by The Britannia Parking Group. 

What about the name & company number on the bottom of the NTK?

The NTK says Britannia Parking Group Ltd t/a Britannia Parking and shows their company number which matches Companies House record

1505grandad

"Is the partial landowner authority that you were sent, with the RIGHT Britannia (full name matches the name on the claim form exactly - word for word?)."

"The NTK says Britannia Parking Group Ltd t/a Britannia Parking and shows their company number which matches Companies House record"

So what exact name and company number is shown on the NTK, landowner authority and the signs in the cp?.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08182990

BRITANNIA PARKING GROUP LIMITED overview - Companies House 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03175808

BRITANNIA PARKING LIMITED overview - Companies House