PPM and BW Legal appealing after I beat them twice

DownwithPPCs

The irony is the parking company moaned at the dispute resolution hearing that I hadn't supplied enough detail in my WS. My argument was that the dispute resolution hearing was only to determine whether the mater was proceeding to a final hearing and that I would supply everything in full for the final hearing. The dispute resolution hearing was 10 mins long and the judge even said then that he didnt have enough time in that hearing to consider all the evidence. The matter will go to a final hearing. 

The new order was sent out and said any evidence or written material to be sent in two weeks before the final hearing which I did and sent to the parking company. They have no excuse in my opinion and I followed what I was told to do, which the judge in the hearing agreed. 

Regarding right of audience I'm also unsure whether I'm meant to be there or not as it doesn't specify.

DownwithPPCs

DullGreyGuy said:

DownwithPPCs said:

Mouse007 said:

DownwithPPCs said:

I don't know how, but it looks like the appeal is being allowed

I don't quite see it that way. This looks like a hearing to decide if an appeal will be allowed.

Agreed. Sorry, I phrased it wrong. I meant that I don't know how their application has even been allowed to be taken into consideration, given the fact they have lost twice, were denied appeal in the hearing and are not bringing any new evidence to the table.

Because they have a legal right to submit for an appeal.

Whilst trial judges do grant rights to appeal its tantamount to admitting they may have made a serious error in law or procedure and so there always has to be the safety net of having an alternative judge look at the case and determine if there is the potential for such errors to have been made

With that in mind, would you say it is highly unlikely they will grant the appeal?

Fruitcake

Nobody can predict the future, let alone what the result of playing judge bingo will bring.

If they are allowed another bite then you need to ensure they don't win again. Remember that the requirements of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 with regards to fairness in contract terms must be applied by the courts even if the CRA hasn't been brought up at the evidence or WS stage.

You therefore have a little wiggle room by challenging the fairness of the parking contract as advertised on the signs so that can be brought into evidence at WS stage even if it wasn't in your defence.

Coupon-mad

DownwithPPCs said:

DullGreyGuy said:

DownwithPPCs said:

Mouse007 said:

DownwithPPCs said:

I don't know how, but it looks like the appeal is being allowed

I don't quite see it that way. This looks like a hearing to decide if an appeal will be allowed.

Agreed. Sorry, I phrased it wrong. I meant that I don't know how their application has even been allowed to be taken into consideration, given the fact they have lost twice, were denied appeal in the hearing and are not bringing any new evidence to the table.

Because they have a legal right to submit for an appeal.

Whilst trial judges do grant rights to appeal its tantamount to admitting they may have made a serious error in law or procedure and so there always has to be the safety net of having an alternative judge look at the case and determine if there is the potential for such errors to have been made

With that in mind, would you say it is highly unlikely they will grant the appeal?

No. Very likely indeed, if you don't attend, that they will be granted the right to appeal.  They will send a barrister.  The HHJ will be walked into allowing the right to appeal because in your absence no-one will point out what you know really happened. 

You need to book that day off and be there.  You are not 'required' but you are entitled to attend.

Send the court an email telling them you will attend in person.

You've got to attend to push back, and explain that the Dispute Resolution was literally 10 minutes and akin to Mediation only, with no submissions or evidence scrutinised and no suggestion that anything supplied at that point was a 'full & final' bundle.  You then filed and served a WS and evidence in good time and the Claimant saw it and was certainly never disadvantaged, and there was nothing new that wasn't pleaded in defence.

As far as you were concerned you did everything right and you are legally entitled to question the prominence of terms and the fairness of the sign/contractual terms, at the final hearing.  This is allowed and indeed falls as a statutory duty upon the courts, whether a party pleaded it or not.  This duty is set out in s71 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (Duty of court to consider fairness of term).  


Questions:

1. Did they supply a new WS themselves after the DR hearing?  Just wondering if they did it too?

2. Your submission was not 'late', was it?

3. Did you mention landowner authority or your lease rights in your original defence?

4. And why are they saying it wasn't signed under a statement of truth?


You need to show us (redacted links):

- your defence (if you used the Template Defence please only show us the early part that you wrote yourself)

- your first WS pack that was used at the DR hearing

- your final bundle, but PLEASE highlight in colour any changes in the WS, rather than expecting us to play 'spot the difference'.

Grizebeck

When is the appeal hearing?

DownwithPPCs

Coupon-mad said:

DownwithPPCs said:

DullGreyGuy said:

DownwithPPCs said:

Mouse007 said:

DownwithPPCs said:

I don't know how, but it looks like the appeal is being allowed

I don't quite see it that way. This looks like a hearing to decide if an appeal will be allowed.

Agreed. Sorry, I phrased it wrong. I meant that I don't know how their application has even been allowed to be taken into consideration, given the fact they have lost twice, were denied appeal in the hearing and are not bringing any new evidence to the table.

Because they have a legal right to submit for an appeal.

Whilst trial judges do grant rights to appeal its tantamount to admitting they may have made a serious error in law or procedure and so there always has to be the safety net of having an alternative judge look at the case and determine if there is the potential for such errors to have been made

With that in mind, would you say it is highly unlikely they will grant the appeal?

No. Very likely indeed, if you don't attend, that they will be granted the right to appeal.  They will send a barrister.  The HHJ will be walked into allowing the right to appeal because in your absence no-one will point out what you know really happened. 

You need to book that day off and be there.  You are not 'required' but you are entitled to attend.

Send the court an email telling them you will attend in person.

You've got to attend to push back, and explain that the Dispute Resolution was literally 10 minutes and akin to Mediation only, with no submissions or evidence scrutinised and no suggestion that anything supplied at that point was a 'full & final' bundle.  You then filed and served a WS and evidence in good time and the Claimant saw it and was certainly never disadvantaged, and there was nothing new that wasn't pleaded in defence.

As far as you were concerned you did everything right and you are legally entitled to question the prominence of terms and the fairness of the sign/contractual terms, at the final hearing.  This is allowed and indeed falls as a statutory duty upon the courts, whether a party pleaded it or not.  This duty is set out in s71 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (Duty of court to consider fairness of term).  


Questions:

1. Did they supply a new WS themselves after the DR hearing?  Just wondering if they did it too?

2. Your submission was not 'late', was it?

3. Did you mention landowner authority or your lease rights in your original defence?

4. And why are they saying it wasn't signed under a statement of truth?


You need to show us (redacted links):

- your defence (if you used the Template Defence please only show us the early part that you wrote yourself)

- your first WS pack that was used at the DR hearing

- your final bundle, but PLEASE highlight in colour any changes in the WS, rather than expecting us to play 'spot the difference'.

Thanks @coupon-mad. Of course I will be there if I need to be. The directions were unclear.

Answers to your questions-

1. No. They didn't.
2. My submission and all submissions were perfectly on time.
3. I believe I did just not in the detail that my final WS went into.
4. I think they're trying to find anything- I think maybe because I typed my name rather than signed with a pen.

I will upload the two WS tomorrow.

Thanks as always.

DownwithPPCs

Grizebeck said:

When is the appeal hearing?

Appeal hearing is 3rd Feb.

Coupon-mad

Maybe @Grizebeck might be able to help you - but you really must attend this. It needs a robust knock-back or the HHJ will (as usual) be led up the garden path by a slick barrister spouting crap.

DownwithPPCs

I will attend, no problem. I hope they allow me to speak and have my say.

I don't know why the judge would allow the appeal as this is just ridiculous at this point. Two judges have already passed judgement in my favour. Surely they can see that these scumbags just won't stop at anything to abuse the legal system to get what they want. 

@Coupon-mad it is worth mentioning that this appeal was submitted 16 days after I threatened director of MA and their agents along with the parking company with the injunction.

Out of interest if, in a worse case scenario if they allowed permission to appeal what would happen then? It goes to another hearing?

DownwithPPCs

@Grizebeck and @Coupon-mad please bear with me, I have to manually go through both WS manually redacting everything. Going to take longer than I thought. Will post it once done.

I have emailed the court to say I will be attending the application to appeal hearing, and I have requested it to be moved to a nearer court to me as well.