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Are we being conned with high energy charges

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MouldyOldDough
MouldyOldDough Posts: 1,851 Forumite
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edited 4 January 2023 at 3:06PM in Energy
See https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live for live current energy use and sources in UK
It clearly shows that gas is currently only a small (11% amount) Wind is 50% of electricity generation
So why is it so expensive and getting even more ?

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  • Apodemus
    Apodemus Posts: 3,384 Forumite
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    The snapshot figures at 2pm on a relatively windy day (in the North Sea), don't necessarily reflect the position at the peak daily demand or when the wind is not blowing so well for the renewables sector. 
  • pochase
    pochase Posts: 3,449 Forumite
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    If you want to pay always the current price you should go for a Octopus Tracker or Agile.

    Just be aware that the latest cap was 100p, so you might end up pay three times the SVT cost.
  • Astria
    Astria Posts: 1,448 Forumite
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    If you want to buy electric/gas at a specific point in time then yes you can get some pretty decent prices. For example, last night/this morning when the winds were strong you could get free electric from Octopus as it was price was 0p (and in some cases a negative amount)
    If you want a guaranteed rate regardless of time of day, then the price will be significantly higher.

  • Scot_39
    Scot_39 Posts: 1,937 Forumite
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    edited 5 January 2023 at 2:48PM
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    See https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live for live current energy use and sources in UK
    It clearly shows that gas is currently only a small (11% amount) Wind is 50% of electricity generation
    So why is it so expensive and getting even more ?


    Because that is not the standard typical mix - and nor does it reflect the advanced purchasing of much of the gas / electricity we use.  2 weeks ago during the cold snap - wind was less than 10% of mix - outputting c3GW vs todays 18GW.

    And that pushed the daily ave wholesale prices to c670 (it was c£200 at lunchtime today), but a more telling c£2500 at 6pm - whcih is why national grid / energy firms have been paying people not to cook etc at that time.

    See Ofgem price cap page for their assumed costing periods - basically last 3-6 months for current cap.

    If used the grid's own page - look at the longer term figures and mixes.

    And the biggest problem - is until Cons introduced CfD for nuclear (for Hinkley C in 2012 deal - c10p at 2012 indexing now Sizewell going ahead - but not expected online to 2026/7) and in 2015 renawables auctions - the price was uncapped - so basically market rate - even if bears no relationship to cost to produce.

    Hence even Cons are now imposing windfall taxes on old wind contracts (assuming the threatened court case doesn't stop them).  Edit 5/1/93 - And that after months trying to get suppliers to accept offer new deals, replacing uncapped with capped prices along lines of modern CfD (contract for Difference) basis - which they rejected.

    So far only sub 2GW from the 2015 auction (c12p/kWh) and maybe a bit from later is online - less than 5% of total demand if cold.

    The next major 2019 auction (5.8GW @ strike price ?) with target online dates 2023-2025 and over 10GW Wind / Solar in July 2022 - sold at roughly 4.35p/kWh wholesale (at 2022 indexing when July market ave 45p) - target dates 2025-2027 - will build on that in coming years - so the caps will become increasingly significant - unless gas prices drop away.

    But it is already making a small difference to our bills - only c1% - the Oct/Q4 2022 Ofgem cap had -£23 CfD rebate in total - the Jan/Q1 2023 had -£40 rebate in total.


  • consequences
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    So why is it so expensive and getting even more ?

    Because it's a quasi-monopoly and they can get away with it.

  • Miser1964
    Miser1964 Posts: 283 Forumite
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    edited 5 January 2023 at 1:32PM
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    I read the spot price for electricity went negative in Finland a few days back. In winter! Of course in rip-off Britain/Treasure Island we continue to be bled white; largely due to the failures of Ofgem whose staff are 100% sympathetic to the producers. 
  • Spoonie_Turtle
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    Miser1964 said:
    I read the spot price for electricity went negative in Finland a few days back. In winter! Of course in rip-off Britain/Treasure Island we continue to be bled white; largely due to the failures of Ofgem whose staff are 100% sympathetic to the producers. 
    Octopus Agile has had negative pricing reasonably often in the last week or so, also in winter.  Last Thursday, ¼ of the day was negative, dropping as low as -8.4p/kWh https://agileprices.co.uk/?region=E&fromdate=20221231
  • chris1973
    chris1973 Posts: 965 Forumite
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    edited 7 January 2023 at 6:26PM
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    I was talking to a relative over Xmas who lives in Jersey, they pay 17p per KWH for both Business and Domestic Electricity on a single rate, although they also have various E7 and 'Heat' style tariffs as Electric Heating is still the main form of heating for a lot of Islanders. My relative is on an E7 tariff which I think is 19p peak rate and 9.5p off peak. I guess it helps that they buy their Electricity from France.
    "Dont expect anybody else to support you, maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse, but you never know when each one, might run out" - Mary Schmich
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