Are we being conned with high energy charges

MouldyOldDough

chris1973 said:

I was talking to a relative over Xmas who lives in Jersey, they pay 17p per KWH for both Business and Domestic Electricity on a single rate, although they also have various E7 and 'Heat' style tariffs as Electric Heating is still the main form of heating for a lot of Islanders. My relative is on an E7 tariff which I think is 19p peak rate and 9.5p off peak. I guess it helps that they buy their Electricity from France.

Are you sure that your relative is not simply on a fixed price contract still ?

Because French electricity prices are similar to UK (and due to increase further still).....

similar to UK meter charges - They pay a fixed price "subscription base" plus energy charges

daz378

I've heard on social media...that Europe is paying a lot less for its energy  than the uk... is that true? Or are European countries  shielding their citizens more than us...its hard finding  a politically neutral answer to this

Mstty

daz378 said:

I've heard on social media...that Europe is paying a lot less for its energy  than the uk... is that true? Or are European countries  shielding their citizens more than us...its hard finding  a politically neutral answer to this

Ah well it must be true if it's on social media.

LMGTFY.........

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20221031-1

Just a bit more googling and yes parts of Europe and cheaper and parts are higher. Yes the UK are at the higher end in general. 

The problem is with the wording Europe are paying "a lot less" to some 1p off electricity and half a pence of gas would be a lot so it's not really a good measurement.

gbhxu

In one word, YES

markin

July so very out off date. Germany has a cost of 500B$ including all the bailouts.




 


EDIT:

BBC  https://www.bbc.com/news/61522123

In October, the German parliament approved a "defensive shield" package worth €200bn (£175bn).
It includes a cap on gas and electricity prices for households and some businesses from early next year.
The government will pay December's monthly gas bill for all households and small-to-medium businesses.
In September and October, all taxpayers received a one-off energy payment €300. There has been extra help for people on benefits.
Public transport tickets are being subsidised.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPu1jboyQd0

MattMattMattUK

markin said:

July so very out off date. Germany has a cost of 500B$ including all the bailouts.




 

Link to the original article below, but yet, very out of date, it ignores the Energy Price Guarantee which brings the allocated funding to over £100 billion for the UK through to the end of the fiscal year, although other countries have also increased their subsidies and handouts further as well.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/09/what-is-the-cost-of-europe-s-energy-crisis/

macman

Some countries in Europe, such as France, are providing a higher direct subsidy, but the retailers are all buying at the same international wholesale rates. 
Ultimately the taxpayer pays the higher price, but via general taxation than directly via their bills.

Petriix

The energy 'market' is the result of political ideology. There's no particular reason why we should be paying the gas price for wind generation (and in many cases we're not because a lot of electricity is bought in advance using PPAs and some schemes use CFDs etc.).

It's also perverse that much of the UK energy infrastructure is owned by foreign energy companies which are part state owned. But that's where we've got to.

I strongly suggest that people think about such matters when deciding how to vote; after all this is just the culmination of the past 40 years of politics. There are progressive alternatives. 

MattMattMattUK

Petriix said:

The energy 'market' is the result of political ideology. There's no particular reason why we should be paying the gas price for wind generation (and in many cases we're not because a lot of electricity is bought in advance using PPAs and some schemes use CFDs etc.).

It's also perverse that much of the UK energy infrastructure is owned by foreign energy companies which are part state owned. But that's where we've got to.

I strongly suggest that people think about such matters when deciding how to vote; after all this is just the culmination of the past 40 years of politics. There are progressive alternatives. 

None of the political parties in the UK are offering real solutions to energy security in the UK. Labour offers greater handouts than the Conservatives because that appeals to Labour voters, just as lower spending appeals to Conservative voters. The Lib Dems are much the same and the Greens are offering something that would hugely increase costs whilst also likely leading to blackouts. 

The only viable solution would be large scale state owned and independent generation capacity which does not rely on external supply and does not stop working if the weather does not suit it. With the limitations of current deployable technology and limitations of recourse supply that means the only viable solution is large scale building of nuclear power plants, upwards of 140 reactors in the UK. It would around a trillion pounds and would need to be funded from a combination of tax rises and long term borrowing. However the UK public is unwilling to pay enough tax to fund running the country properly in the first place, let alone fund investment. Until/unless the UK electorate are willing to vote for significant tax rises across the board (the bottom two thirds of earners in the UK pay the lowest rate of income taxation in the UK, the top third pay the fifth highest) then all the other measures will be short term bodges to bribe the electorate. 

dunstonh

I strongly suggest that people think about such matters when deciding how to vote; after all this is just the culmination of the past 40 years of politics. There are progressive alternatives. 

It is worth noting that the UK energy policy was set by Labour in 2008.   It wasn't changed under the Coalition Government or the following Conservative governments.      

With Labour and Conservatives both being at fault and LibDems and Greens having really daft alternatives, who are these progressive alternatives?