TV Licence Letters

Cornucopia

Brie said:

Cornucopia said:

I wouldn't bother trying to read anything into TV Licensing letters - they are designed simply to deceive and threaten the Public.   Each letter probably contains at least a dozen statements that aren't true.

They are a national shame and a shameful waste of resources.

Are there actually anything in them that is untrue?  I know that "you must have a TV license" (assuming they say that) is not correct as there's lots of people who don't have TVs.  But other than that?

Generally, the only thing that's basically true is when they describe what a Licence is required for.  Even that can be overly vague.

Pretty much everything else is untrue.

There's:-

- The stupid theatrical threats and devices designed to scare people.

- The wilful pretence that we don't have the rights we have.

- The wilful misuse of terms like "visit", "investigation", "officer", etc. to create a false narrative about what their enforcement process actually is.

- The wilful omission of concepts like "voluntary" and "informed consent" designed to set up members of the Public to be more compliant than they are legally required to be.

km1500

and addressing letters to 'the legal occupier'giving a weighty worrying feel rather than just 'the occupier'

wild666

I wonder what would happen if everyone without a licence emailed TVL after getting a letter telling them to cease and desist from contacting them or they would take them to court without further notice if a letter arrived from them? By the tone of most of their letters they claim you need a licence to watch Amazon and YouTube.

Descrabled

Never contact TVL, Capita, or BBC about the need for a licence. Never enter any discusion with TVL, Capita, or BBC about your lack of a licence. Never, ever, on pain of death, give any name to TVL, Capita, or BBC.

The only words I have ever said to Capita are "no thank you".

The BBC, TVL, and Capita are all your enemy.

Cornucopia

wild666 said:

I wonder what would happen if everyone without a licence emailed TVL after getting a letter telling them to cease and desist from contacting them or they would take them to court without further notice if a letter arrived from them? By the tone of most of their letters they claim you need a licence to watch Amazon and YouTube.

The problem with a campaign of legal action is that different people take a different view of how much they want to be involved, and the possible protest group rapidly gets fragmented.   Although Cease and Desist is a valid approach, and it is supposed to be a warning before legal action, it's not clear what that legal action would be in this case because the various harassment provisions all have exemptions around official, excusable, reasonable (etc.) action.

Personally, I favour returning letters addressed to the occupier (or legal occupier) unopened using Return to Sender.  This is free to do, and I can't see it being possible for TVL to create any consequences from it.   I imagine that a lot of their letters are already returned, and adding more and more seems likely to increase their workload and potentially affect their relationship with Royal Mail.   If everyone returned TVL letters it would see them having to take back and dispose of millions of letters every month, and it would also undermine key parts of their strategy because the Public would not be subject to the misinformation they contain.

Descrabled

The only problem with the idea of Return To Sender is that it puts a strain on Royal Mail resources and their costs and may not be too much cost pressure on the BBC.

Cornucopia

Descrabled said:

The only problem with the idea of Return To Sender is that it puts a strain on Royal Mail resources and their costs and may not be too much cost pressure on the BBC.

I'm not sure I have a great deal of sympathy for them - they are complicit in the TVL "Letters" process.   They must know that there is something not right going on, but they have been delivering TVL misinformation to the Public for over 30 years in the BBC era.  

TVL say that they sent 63.2 million letters in 2021/2 - if we estimate a bulk mailing rate of, say, 15p per item, Royal Mail are receiving nearly £10m for that work, and that has to come with some responsibility, especially where none of the usual agencies (Trading Standards, ASA) have jurisdiction.

The alternative to "Return to Sender" is to forward them (again free of charge) to the BBC's Head of Revenue Management or the BBC DG.  But that then removes some of the simplicity from the idea, and it potentially brings in questions of harassment of the BBC by the organisers of that.  

Ultimately, though, in a progressive society, there has to be an option to reject abusive mail in some way, and it's difficult to imagine how that could work without some impact on the mail carrier.

PaulC0

Cornucopia said:

PaulC0 said:

Are there any templates I can send to TVL? Cancelled DD recently

What kind of templates?

Any letter to stop them calling at my door

Cornucopia

PaulC0 said:

Cornucopia said:

PaulC0 said:

Are there any templates I can send to TVL? Cancelled DD recently

What kind of templates?

Any letter to stop them calling at my door

It gets quite complicated - are you wanting to do this because you live with someone who could be vulnerable to being exploited or disturbed by a TV Licensing caller?   Or is it for your peace of mind and convenience?

If the latter, I'd suggest just turning them away at the door, if they call.   "Not today, thank you", is pretty straightforward and does not create any liability.    If you have a video doorbell or entryphone you don't even need to answer the door.

If the former, you can use what's called WOIRA (Withdrawal of the Implied Right of Access) in England & Wales.  I would add a Disability Discrimination angle to that...   They will respond by confirming your instruction, and they will say that it will be respected by them for a period of 2 years.   It should also stop their letters.

Dear TVL,

I am writing to remove the Implied Right of Access from staff and contractors working on behalf of your organisation.    My household includes one or more persons who for reason of disability cannot tolerate the possibility of a TV Licensing "visit", and they would also not be suited to an interview under caution without an appropriate adult.

Please confirm that you have understood and implemented my instructions.

Yours...

strawb_shortcake

I'm always surprised to hear of feelings of harassment from TVL, I've not had a requirement to have a TV licence for over 20 years. They've not once visited, knocked on my door or sent an abundance of letters. 
We get a letter every couple of years asking to reconfirm we don't need a licence and that's it. 

We do have a smart TV on the wall, but there's no aerial smart box, or any way to be able to watch live TV. We also have not watched the iplayer since the rules changed.

I do however like how annoyed people get at us for not having a TV licence