London ULEZ - living with a non-compliant car 13 December 2022 at 11:33AM edited 13 December 2022 at 11:36AM in Motoring 29 replies 2.2K views

baser999

The expansion planned for August 2023 will swallow me up - I’m presently about a mile outside the eastern end. My car is a non-compliant Land Rover and it’s my understanding that I’ll not be subjected to any daily charge unless the car’s driven. As soon as I move it I’d be liable.
My question is, how would the authorities know if I just drove around within the zone. I realise that should I ‘go outside’ I’d get caught by the cameras driving back in but if I kept my journey inside how would I be picked up? As far as I’m aware cameras are presently only sited at the boundaries. If I’d only be hit by crossing the boundary line, I can’t see there’s any reason why I couldn’t drive right across the zone (congestion charge might then come into play but that’s another matter)

Is there anyone here that presently lives within the London ULEZ with a non-compliant vehicle. What do you do?

Typhoon2000

Whilst most of the cameras are the boundaries some will be at busy junctions and such within the zone. Yes it is perfectly possible to drive around locally without ever being charged. You will soon learn how to spot the cameras. Do make sure sign up for the autopay and register your car for £10. Then there is no risk of a penalty for not paying.

Bigwheels1111

I’m lucky I have a euro 6 diesel so won’t effect me.
If euro 7 comes out then I might be in trouble.
As the vehicle is registered disabled I would get an extra 4 year exemption.

Goudy

As Typhoon says, there are camera dotted around London that can pick you up.

Think of London as circles of hell (or circles of cameras and charges) with tenticles that reach out between them.

The inner part which we know as the congestion charge zone is ringed with cameras and has others dotted around within the zone that pick up drivers that may be already in the zone. 

The middle part which we currently know as the ULEZ zone around the north and south circular is also ringed with cameras and has other dotted around within the zone on some busy routes.

The outer zone (within the M25) which is currently the LEZ but will become the extended ULEZ next year is also ringed with cameras with others dotted around within the zone on busy routes.

All these cameras are operated by TFL and they all link up to monitor whatever is moving within the confines of London.
The extended ULEZ is already monitored, just until next year it's just for vehicles that don't meet the LEZ.

If say your old diesel pops up in Westminster on a camera, you'll be charged for the CC and ULEZ.
If it pops up on a camera in Stratford, it's just the ULEZ.
if it pops up in Dagenham, you are ok but next year you will be charged the ULEZ.

There are maps of where the camera roughly are around the internet, though I wouldn't recommend relying on them to avoid charges and fines.

baser999

Thanks Goudy, that answers my question. I’d thought that there were just boundary cameras, since locally to me it seems that even the smallest of side turning has a camera in situ along with signage; I’d always wondered how much this must have cost to have installed. 

Obviously if there’s random cameras inside the zones that’ll put a stop to me driving about in my non-compliant ‘people slayer’
Perhaps Father Christmas will send me something 😏

Grumpy_chap

I would have thought that a non-compliant vehicle but residing in the ULEZ zone would be a right pain except for certain edge cases.  
One such edge case I can think of would be a camper van, where it is only used a limited number of times a year and / or as a standby vehicle in case the family car is out of action for any reason.
Others might be people who commute by train and only use the car at the weekend.

The ULEZ charge is set sufficiently high that if a car is used daily (or at least daily during the week), then the monthly cost is enough to cover a PCP, so you'd do that.  A car only normally used one day per week could still make sense at £12.50 a time, it will work out to £650 or thereabouts per year.

baser999

Grumpy_chap said:

The ULEZ charge is set sufficiently high that if a car is used daily (or at least daily during the week), then the monthly cost is enough to cover a PCP, so you'd do that.  A car only normally used one day per week could still make sense at £12.50 a time, it will work out to £650 or thereabouts per year.

I’m retired and our car is probably used five days a week - shopping, having to visit my mother (outside the present zones) or simply going out for the day. That would cost us £62.50pw, so way more than buying a new car by way of some PCP agreement. Why should we have to tie ourselves into some long-term such arrangement. Our car was bought as it suited our needs and it has been properly maintained since. It just happens to fall into that category that the mayor wants to gradually abolish. Khans proposed scrappage scheme would award us the princely sum of £2000. So we’d lose money there. 
If we’re still here in August next year, we’re to lose out whichever way we turn. 

Perhaps the answer is to buy an old petrol on its last legs, belching out smoke everywhere, but which is deemed compliant.

Grumpy_chap

baser999 said:

I’m retired and our car is probably used five days a week - shopping, having to visit my mother (outside the present zones) or simply going out for the day. That would cost us £62.50pw, so way more than buying a new car by way of some PCP agreement. Why should we have to tie ourselves into some long-term such arrangement. 

I don't think you should have to - I merely stated the facts of it.

baser999 said:

Perhaps the answer is to buy an old petrol on its last legs, belching out smoke everywhere, but which is deemed compliant.

Well, £20k would get you a nice, sensible, staid, practical car suited to your use with rom in the back for taking your mother out also:

That is what Mr Khan wants you to do.

OR, you could think outside the box and have the level of comfort and luxury you deserve having worked hard all your life.  Enjoy your retirement and remember, Mum deserves the best for her days out:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211011274081

macman

The bulk of the cameras have already been in place for years for other purposes, the only additional ones will be at the new boundary points.
Any petrol car reg'd after Jan 2006 is compliant: TfL claim that 85% of vehicles driven in the expansion zone are already compliant. Since the average age of a car at scrapping is 14 years, any non-compliant petrol vehicles are likely to be nearing the end of their lives. The main losers from the expansion of ULEZ will be drivers of pre-Euro 5 diesels (Sept 2015),
There's no real evidence of depressed trade-in prices for non-compliant vehicles, as dealers will simply move them on into areas outside ULEZ. Diesel sales were in decline long before ULEZ became a factor.

Goudy

Going back to these circles of different charges and their camera equipment, it's not hard to see that once we have (mostly) complied and they start to make less money than it takes to run and fund some of the other Khan dreams and visions, the target will change.
(which is what happened with the original LEZ and ULEZ, they made far less than they predicted)

Khan/TFL have already mentioned that at some point in the future, road pricing will become inevitable within London.
It was less than a month ago he suggested smart road user charging. A network of tolls across London similar to Singapore that will capture anyone in any vehicle, even EV's and charge them.

It's easy to see a stepped vehicle and area charge being introduced.
So an EV in just an outer zone will pay pence, a diesel or petrol will pay pounds.
Same with inner zones but with higher charges for that zone.

As the higher chargeable vehicles drop off naturally, they will start to hammer what's left as it's the lefts view that personal transport is the route of all evil to be profitted out of.

silvercar

baser999 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

The ULEZ charge is set sufficiently high that if a car is used daily (or at least daily during the week), then the monthly cost is enough to cover a PCP, so you'd do that.  A car only normally used one day per week could still make sense at £12.50 a time, it will work out to £650 or thereabouts per year.

I’m retired and our car is probably used five days a week - shopping, having to visit my mother (outside the present zones) or simply going out for the day. That would cost us £62.50pw, so way more than buying a new car by way of some PCP agreement. Why should we have to tie ourselves into some long-term such arrangement. Our car was bought as it suited our needs and it has been properly maintained since. It just happens to fall into that category that the mayor wants to gradually abolish. Khans proposed scrappage scheme would award us the princely sum of £2000. So we’d lose money there. 
If we’re still here in August next year, we’re to lose out whichever way we turn. 

Perhaps the answer is to buy an old petrol on its last legs, belching out smoke everywhere, but which is deemed compliant.

Google for subscription car leasing if you want a short term lease rather than commit to a PCP. 

We live well outside the ULEZ but were very aware of extending boundaries. OH had a diesel car that was sold to him on the basis of low emissions and then suddenly became classified as a high emission car. He changed it for an electric car for this reason, trying to keep one step ahead of the rules. We are under a mile from the LEZ boundary, so the diesel would have been an issue.