Batteries and saving sessions

94JDH

michaels said:

I am not on Octopus and EDF seem pretty slow of the mark but I could use the Hugo or Loop app based schemes.  Anyone any idea if they calculate savings and pay out on the same basis?

My understanding is yes, it still works out biased towards the 3 hours one hour before the saving session - they pay a little higher as well £2.40 compared to £2.25 per kWh on Octopus.
All the energy companies are being paid £3 per kWh so they are all on a winner.

Petriix

The IDA is baked into the formula set by National Grid and is used for the calculation of how much the energy suppliers themselves are paid for the collective 'savings' by their customers.

70sbudgie

Petriix said:

The IDA is baked into the formula set by National Grid and is used for the calculation of how much the energy suppliers themselves are paid for the collective 'savings' by their customers.

Makes you wonder, then if the reason that Octopus pays a lower £/kWhr savings rate than the others is because they recognise the proportion of their customers who have the ability to "game" the system. They have also included a clause about removing smart tariff customers from the trial- presumably their break clause if they feel someone crosses the line of fair play.

michaels

70sbudgie said:

Petriix said:

The IDA is baked into the formula set by National Grid and is used for the calculation of how much the energy suppliers themselves are paid for the collective 'savings' by their customers.

Makes you wonder, then if the reason that Octopus pays a lower £/kWhr savings rate than the others is because they recognise the proportion of their customers who have the ability to "game" the system. They have also included a clause about removing smart tariff customers from the trial- presumably their break clause if they feel someone crosses the line of fair play.

But they win by 75p per kwh 'saved' regardless of whether it is really saved or not?

[Although not sure of the full economics, they are obviously hedged for the price cap but perhaps that is for 'expected' demand and if there is extra demand (like people gaming the system during the IDA window) then they have to buy this at spot which is likely very expensive?]

1961Nick

michaels said:

70sbudgie said:

Petriix said:

The IDA is baked into the formula set by National Grid and is used for the calculation of how much the energy suppliers themselves are paid for the collective 'savings' by their customers.

Makes you wonder, then if the reason that Octopus pays a lower £/kWhr savings rate than the others is because they recognise the proportion of their customers who have the ability to "game" the system. They have also included a clause about removing smart tariff customers from the trial- presumably their break clause if they feel someone crosses the line of fair play.

But they win by 75p per kwh 'saved' regardless of whether it is really saved or not?

[Although not sure of the full economics, they are obviously hedged for the price cap but perhaps that is for 'expected' demand and if there is extra demand (like people gaming the system during the IDA window) then they have to buy this at spot which is likely very expensive?]

They do suggest that you charge all your devices before the trial… naturally I assumed that this included the Tesla & HESS.😀

michaels

Saving session 9-10 tomorrow morning according to Hugo app - however they have the calcs wrong in their example as it suggests that all extra use in the 3 hour on the day adjustment window is added to the baseline whereas I believe it is the hourly average that is added.

We could use 30kwh in those 3 hours giving us a savings level of 10kwh per hour so £30 payback but 30kwh at 45p per unit (5am-8am) would cost £13.50,

Mikeyboy01443

Have not read the whole thread but what is the 'adjustment period' ? 
I have not bothered taking part in any of these yet - i dont see how ethics comes into it at all, we all want to save money right? So I Dont see anything we have to do is gaming the system or unethical ...

Spies

Mikeyboy01443 said:

Have not read the whole thread but what is the 'adjustment period' ? 
I have not bothered taking part in any of these yet - i dont see how ethics comes into it at all, we all want to save money right? So I Dont see anything we have to do is gaming the system or unethical ...

The ethics part is 'wasting' electricity in the 4-1 hours leading up to the event in order to make the savings look greater than they otherwise would be.

94JDH

michaels said:

Saving session 9-10 tomorrow morning according to Hugo app - however they have the calcs wrong in their example as it suggests that all extra use in the 3 hour on the day adjustment window is added to the baseline whereas I believe it is the hourly average that is added.

We could use 30kwh in those 3 hours giving us a savings level of 10kwh per hour so £30 payback but 30kwh at 45p per unit (5am-8am) would cost £13.50,

It's the half-hourly average x length of the saving session

So in your case, 5kWh per half hour x 2 (as this session is 1 hour not 2 as per the previous one).
Payback would be max around £22.50 without any allowance for other adjustments.

94JDH

Octopus saving session £3.37 per kWh tomorrow 5pm to 6pm