PCN for entering road a minute under the restricted time

user1977

Herzlos said:

I think the only argument is about accuracy. How accurately can you expect the average person to know when it's turned 4?

These days, very accurately given how many clocks automatically adjust themselves online or via satellite etc. If the motorist isn't sure whether their clock is accurate, I would say it's up to them to play safe.

Ebe_Scrooge

Car_54 said:

Herzlos said:

The parking grace period is to give people to park, read signs, pay and leave etc, so wouldn't apply here. 

I think the only argument is about accuracy. How accurately can you expect the average person to know when it's turned 4?

The average person has at least one mobile phone!

If he can't look at it while driving, every car I've had since 1977 has had a clock. Most recent cars seem to set their clocks using radio signals. Otherwise he can check the car clock against his phone occasionally.

To throw another spanner into the works ... can we assume that the time on the enforcement camera is correct?  I'm guessing that it is, and that it uses a radio time-signal or whatever?  In my local car park, the ticket machines are often out by 4, 5, 6 minutes, and if I'm there in the evening I'm often hanging around for a couple of minutes for them to click over to 6:00pm to get a free ticket (free between 6:00pm and 8:00am), even though it's really 6:03 pm or whatever.

zamil_uk

On my digital clock on my car the moment it hit 4:00pm I turned into the road, so my clock might be few seconds ahead. Either way I don't understand how they can not establish that not all clocks are operating within the same seconds as theirs.

daveyjp

De minimis may apply if it was a few seconds before the cut off period, Pepipoo may have details of similar cases.

diystarter7

Car_54 said:

The average person has at least one mobile phone!

The law stipulates you can't use a hand-held phone whilst driving

Car_54 said:

If he can't look at it while driving, every car I've had since 1977 has had a clock. Most recent cars seem to set their clocks using radio signals. Otherwise he can check the car clock against his phone occasionally.

The highlighted bit, what if their clock was out of order as we've had a newer car years ago 2014 car that had a clcok in the middle of the console and it stopped working.

No one wants a ticket so there must be a valid reason.

OP -  tell them  as per Heloz post. and good luck.

MarvinDay

daveyjp said:

De minimis may apply if it was a few seconds before the cut off period, Pepipoo may have details of similar cases.

It does:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t139595.html

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t128164.html

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t120957.html

And is the adjudicators comments referring to the last example above:

The adjudication in Mohamed Byanouni v London Borough of Barnet (218015398A) seems to fit the bill:

"This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being stopped in a restricted area outside a school when prohibited. The alleged contravention occurred in Clovelly Avenue at 4.14pm on 8 March 2018.

I have looked at the CCTV footage and also the site images submitted by the Council. These show that Mr Byanouni's vehicle was stopped on entrance markings in front of Colindale Primary School. They also show that there is a sign at the location warning motorists that there is no stopping on the entrance markings between 2.45pm and 4.15pm Mondays to Fridays.

Mr Byanouni appeals because he says that he stopped to pick up his children from school. He says that he is well aware of the restrictions and that the clock in his car showed the time of 4.15pm. The Council says that its clock is calibrated according to the Atomic Clock, ensuring 100% accuracy. The CCTV timing shows the vehicle stopping at 4:14:18.

I accept the evidence of Mr Byanouni that the clock in his car showed the time of 4.15pm. I find that the alleged contravention did not occur. There must be some application of common sense. Motorists cannot all be expected to wear time pieces calibrated to the exact second according to the Atomic Clock. A motorist reading an ordinary watch will not be able to know the time calculated to the exact second."

savergrant

Which permit do you have if you require one to enter your road and park there?
And if it is different then did you have to enter another restricted area to get out of your road, having been unable to find a parking space in your own zone?

Car_54

diystarter7 said:

Car_54 said:

The average person has at least one mobile phone!

The law stipulates you can't use a hand-held phone whilst driving

Did I mention hand-held?

zamil_uk

savergrant said:

Which permit do you have if you require one to enter your road and park there?
And if it is different then did you have to enter another restricted area to get out of your road, having been unable to find a parking space in your own zone?

So I have a C3 permit which allows me to park on any of those roads approx a mile apart from my current residence till the next permit which is C1 and C2 (3 hours maximum parking with my C3 permit on those zones)

I don't understand how the council can enforce a restriction on a road which I'm paying to use those bays at. It's extremely difficult to find parking around my area and the closest parking I could find other than the one which I was issued a PCN on was approx 200 yards away.




 

sheramber

So you don't have a SO1 permit as required on the notice.

If you don't like the parking  regulations  then discuss it with your local councillor.