Coinbase have taken £1,000 from my partner's bank account (she doesn't have a coinbase account).

Sunflower49

Bank (Santander) refused to refund saying she has done this herself. I went to the ombudsman with it (partner is just not very good on the 'phone, or at writing letters etc) and they've investigated and said the same. It's a long saga I don't want to pontificate about unnecessarily but also don't want to drip-feed.

Basically,

• It was two payments of £700 and £300 this summer just gone. Me and partner were on a camping trip, we'd got up very early that day and were both napping in the tent at around 11:00 am when the payments were taken
• Partner doesn't have a CB account and has never purchased bitcoin or had any dealings with cryptocurrency at all
• I have my partner's PIN for her 'phone but nobody else does. I don't know her internet banking passcode nor does anybody else (and obviously it certainly wasn't me)!
• I have tried enquiring through CB but they are difficult to communicate with. I asked on their online enquiry page and they simply came back with a note that there is no account associated with my partner's email address and that they consider the complaint closed-contact 'Law Enforcement' and the bank. I cannot reach them on the 'phone as the automated service wants a CB account number to put one through to any of their various lines, and obviously she doesn't have one so that option has reached a dead-end.
• The bank's argument is that the transactions have taken place using my partner's 'phone and a 'two factor authentication' which I think means that they think my partner has done it as authorising the transaction on the 'phone itself has taken place.
• Partner received no emails, texts etc informing her about this transaction which is the norm for any even slightly unusual one.
• While speaking to the ombudsmen I argued that the bank have gone against their own fraud policy-whereby they state that they endevour to notify customers about any unusual transactions that are attempted, yet this transaction couldn't fair be much *more* unusual. A larger amount than partner usually deals in, to somewhere she's never paid to before, for something she's never purchased before. They came back detailing that £261 was paid into her account around the same time (it was, me paying her for a holiday she'd booked for us). I don't personally see this as anything alike!
• Partner is on a low income and along with the above-I just don't see that anyone for whom £261 is the amount they'd pay for a holiday is going to be paying £1,000 (not much less than their monthly wage!) to a cryptocurrency company but I realise this is a matter of opinion.
• Partner has not given her 'phone to anybody else or compromised her 'phone security in any way.
• This transaction greatly affected partner both financially and mentally, it was awful as it wiped her out of most of that month's money.

Is there anything at all that can be done? My latest communication with the ombudsmen was last weekend-they emailed her on the 24th asking for  a response by the 28th or they would not investigate it any longer-saying that they believed it was her that had done it and that's that unless there are any other lines of enquiry (I am paraphrasing but something such like) and I emailed back saying I was going to seek advice and please to allow more time as it is unfair to ask for a reply within 4 days, two of them being a weekend and especially considering that she is a night shift worker. 

Thank you in advance. I am disgusted that this has happened-recently I had a sort of similar scenario with my bank, where someone or something attempted to pay £560 for an Air B&B. The bank stopped it, contacted me and refunded me. There were around the same time some transactions to a clothes shop online (I think Boohoo) and a video game store. Both things I could feasibly have purchased-but my bank refunded me when I told them it wasn't me. I just cannot believe that this has just been allowed to go out and they won't give it back-I move far larger amounts of money about than my partner, the bank would have been more than reasonable to let that go out.

Also while looking into this I found a (recent) post on 'mumsnet' about something similar-ish too, someone had had this happen but been told that it had happened with a 'chip and pin' transaction so the bank didn't refund. Of course I don't know the person who posted this but it seems a pretty stupid thing for someone to just make up and go online trying to get help with!

Thank you in advance, hope I haven't waffled on too much OR left any crucial information out. 

ForumUser7

Sorry to hear this! You mention you’ve gone to the ombudsman, but did the case actually reach an ombudsman, or did it just get to an investigator at the FOS? If it hasn’t been with an actual ombudsman yet, you should ask them to escalate it to one. Bear in mind this will unfortunately entail further delays

Sunflower49

The email address I'm in communication with is undefined firstname.surname@cases.financial-ombudsman.org.uk. I went straight to them from the bank's being obtrusive. Thank you for responding.

grumbler

So, was the money taken or sent?

ForumUser7

At the bottom of their email, is there a signature?

First Last | Investigator | Tel ***********
Financial Ombudsman Service | Exchange Tower, London, E14 9SR

This is what my case investigator’s one looks like (with details of course). If it says investigator, then it isn’t with an ombudsman at this stage. That said, if you didn’t reply by the deadline they gave that could cause issues, but they did give a short timeframe from what you’ve said. My one gave 1 week - I would’ve assumed this is standardised across all the investigators but I don’t know. If they agree to re-engage, then maybe ask for it to be escalated to an ombudsman. Make sure it is clear as possible that you are not at fault, and you think it is a fraudulent transaction and provide as much evidence and documentation you can to support that. Hopefully the ombudsman will come to agreement with yourselves, and instruct the bank to refund - but no guarantees of course, it’s entirely up to the ombudsman as to what they decide is a suitable course of action. The next step after them would possibly be the small claims court - although I’m unsure whether you’d be claiming from coin base, or santander. 

What you may find helpful is a search on the database of decisions for similar situations https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decisions-case-studies/ombudsman-decisions - it’s not legal precedent as such, but if the ombudsman had a problem with aspects of someone else’s complaint, or others phrased an issue you had in a outstandingly clear way, it may be worth using that to help you construct your email.

Additionally, did you file a formal complaint with santander and receive a written final response? Or did you just express that the situation didn’t feel right? Just trying to think of any reason why the ombudsman wouldn’t be sticking to standard timeframes.

I have had 2 cases sent to the ombudsman (in the midst of my second one now), so I can try to help with that aspect, but it is more in relation to general customer service, and misinformation that caused further problems. I’m hoping a victim of fraudulent crypto transactions who got theirs refunded will chime in soon, but in the meantime I’ll try to help as best as I can

flower77g

• I have tried enquiring through CB but they are difficult to communicate with. I asked on their online enquiry page and they simply came back with a note that there is no account associated with my partner's email address 

• The bank's argument is that the transactions have taken place using my partner's 'phone

This page Coinbase - Buy/Sell Cryptocurrency seems to indicate that CoinBase can trace the actual account number from date, amount, and first eight digits of payment code; report as fraudulent to CoinBase and then initiate dispute with bank within sixty days.   They may also be able to trace the credited account from the phone number not the email, but they are not regulated anyway, so pursuing that is likely a dead end. 

To successfully recover the money it seems CB are expecting the bank to initiate a chargeback request to them within the sixty day time limit.   

If the original poster notified the bank of the problem within sixty days it might be worth clarifying with the ombudsman that the bank's error for which redress is sought is not initiating a chargeback request properly to recover the funds, and you require £1,000 because of the bank's failure to act on the chargeback instruction in a timely manner to offset the loss.   Send the ombudsman a copy of the document linked above, and all the payment reference numbers as additional evidence.  

If the Ombudsman rules against that, the original poster could maybe try a claim in the small claims court against CB for failure to provide £1,000 of whatever digital coin was allegedly bought, sending CB's denial of any digital coin account as evidence to the court.    Again, the claim would be for £1,000: same court process as ordering £1,000 of goods from a shop which then does not deliver.   However Coinbase UK Ltd may have no assets and the record on Companies House shows an active proposal to strike off, so that may not recover any money.  

MikeJXE

I'm with Santander and I know them well. Had debits on my account over a period of 5 months, spent 5 minutes talking to the fraud department and got refunded. Apparently my card had been cloned and purchases made on Amazon.com rather than amazon.co.uk 

So what your saying is someone took two amounts out of the bank, the bank contacted the device for confirmation with  2FA, this was agreed on the device that is registered with the bank and belongs to your partner but your partner didn't do it.

Whoever did knows the number that is registered with the bank and has it in their hand, The device asking for the money is registered with the bank also or the bank would use a OTP to authorise that,  and it's not your partner

Incredible they get smarter everyday 

zagfles

Santander login requires a 5 digit PIN. Could it be that your partner uses the same PIN for the phone? Could someone have seen you/her entering the PIN to unlock the phone? Could the phone have been taken while you were napping, maybe it was left at the entrance to the tent, or in a bag outside? Or maybe dropped outside the tent?

So called 2FA would likely have been useless if the second factor is sending a text to the phone that a thief has managed to access the account on!!

Sunflower49

grumbler said:

So, was the money taken or sent?

I guess 'sent'? 

'Signature- Joe Bloggs| Investigator | 02079641126

Financial Ombudsman Service | Exchange Tower, London, E14 9SR'

Thank you Flower, I will do that with the ombudsmen. 

Thanks Mike, that makes sense and I agree- I am an ex police worker and the cleverer banks get, the more adept criminals become to overcome it

Sunflower49

 

Zagfles  I don't know her banking pin but it isn't the same as the 'phone (it's a different number of digits too).

The phone was in with us while we napped, and I just can't see anybody sneaking into the tent-we were with a group of people , her Sister, sister in law (gay couple like us) a friend and her daughter, another child aged 3-it seems really 'off' that none of them would see someone cloak and dagger-ing into our tent, twice-once to get the 'phone and once to return it. We weren't in a deep sleep either and a tent isn't like a bedroom, it would have disturbed us. It was in the bedroom area of the tent, the airbed took up its entirety so the 'phone was on the bed with us. I did think along this avenue myself, even wondering if one of our group had done it but I just cannot see it

Sunflower49

Mike my Mum is with Santander too and again no problems. In fact when she went to buy a car, they made her really go around the houses to have it authorised as it was a larger purchase than usual, she had to take several telephone calls about it, send them proof etc (I can't remember exact details but they were very careful).