UKPC/DCB Legal Claim, defence deadline this Monday

sed_grep

Hello folks,

Claim form issue date is 31st Oct 2022. I've Acknowledged service 15th Nov and I already know from other threads with same issue date that deadline for submitting defence is this Monday 5th Dec 4pm, which I will do by email and copying in info@dcblegal.co.uk.  I've read several similar threads on here as well as the stickies but I apologise as I know I've not left much time in seeking advice now for Monday.

The circumstances are: my wife is registered keeper and I was driver and it is an overstay at a McDonalds just over 1 year ago. My wife wishes for me to deal with the case on her behalf and if it gets to court to speak on her behalf. Below are the relevant bits I've written from the template defence as a first draft.

My first query is: I'm still not clear after reading many threads, in paragraph 1, as well as admitting keeper, should I add who the driver was? Or, as I have done, just deny that the Defendant was driver and leave at that?

Secondly, I've gone quite heavy on not seeing the signs and this is because it was the middle of the night and at this site there are actually none at all apart from 1 small one just outside the restaurant but nowhere near the entrance doors. I truthfully did not see a single sign at any time. However, I'm going from memory and Google Maps images, as this McDs is 1hr drive away.  Google Maps images were taken 1 month before my PCN and indeed show no signs or cameras apart from the 1 small one I mention which can just about be seen in the background outside the restaurant. The original letters from UKPC do show standard 2 photos of the car arriving and leaving so there was a camera hidden somewhere. Number plate was clear.

But not sure if the judges tend to be sympathetic to a heavy "I didn't see any signs" defence? I've seen the wonderful UKPC/DCB Legal discontinuation thread so hopefully won't get to court anyway.

Please, I'd be grateful for any feedback before submitting this on Monday, below are the relevant bits of my draft, some bits lifted from other threads. Thanks in advance and thanks for the amazing work you all do helping people with these issues.

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. It is denied that the Defendant was the driver.

3. The driver entered the McDonalds Restaurant car park on the <full date & time which was middle of night>. At this time of the day at this point in the year there was no daylight and apart from some limited artificial lighting, the car park was completely dark. The driver had never visited this particular McDonalds before and was unfamiliar with the site.

4. There were no signs or notices reiterating any contractual agreement placed on any persons using the car park at the point of entry to the car park.  As such the driver was unaware of any parking controls that may have been in place at the point of deciding whether or not to enter.  It is the driver’s position (and therefore also the Defendant's) that it could be reasonably concluded, at the point of entry, that a) the car park was owned and managed by the restaurant and not any other entity such as the Claimant and b) the car park was freely available for the use of customers of the restaurant for the duration of their visit to the restaurant.

5. It is the driver's (and therefore also the Defendant's) position that no signs or notices about any parking restrictions were seen while finding and parking in a space, exiting the vehicle, walking along the short path provided to the restaurant, and passing through the restaurant entrance.

6. The Defendant puts the claimant to strict proof as to the existence of any signs or notices about parking restrictions which should have been obviously visible to a driver either at the car park entry point or along the route taken by the driver whilst walking from the car to the restaurant on the date and time stated in the Particulars of Claim.

7. The driver entered the restaurant, made a purchase at the counter and stayed in the restaurant as an "eat in" customer.  At no time was the driver aware of or made aware of any rules regarding limits on the duration of stay.

8. On leaving the restaurant the driver took the same route walking back to the car and driving out of the car park.  As was the case on arriving and entering, at no point was the driver’s attention drawn to any sign or notice about any parking restrictions.  Therefore, no contract was ever been entered into between the driver and the Claimant, or between the Defendant and the Claimant.  If the Claimant maintains that one has been entered into, the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

sed_grep

Here are the Particulars of Claim in case anyone wants to see them

Coupon-mad

I think keep 7 and 8 for the later WS and evidence stage. The rest is fine as long as you keep the rest of the Template Defence in full, re-numbered of course.

Once you email the defence to the CCBC make sure you receive an auto-acknowledgement.

And don't ask us about DCBLegal's first letter (next week) please because repeated questions like this one are ridiculously time consuming and already answered on the forum stickies:
 https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6395425/parking-fine-and-claim-form-from-county-court-business-centre/p5

When DCBLegal reply, pretend you are that poster and read those replies, to spare us!

KeithP

I would remove the word 'therefore' from that.

It seems to me to be a bit close to suggesting that the Defendant was the driver.

Le_Kirk

sed_grep said:

My wife wishes for me to deal with the case on her behalf and if it gets to court to speak on her behalf. 

You can do this as Lay Rep but your wife will need to attend the hearing.

Trainerman

My local Mcds has no sign at the entrance at all. Sounds like the one you used is similar. If so it may well be worth emphasising that. The BPA CoP states specifically that entrance signs are important and that there must be signs at the entrance

sed_grep

Thank you all, very much appreciated.

Coupon-mad - I'll remove 7 and 8 and yes the rest of the template defence will be kept exactly as it is.

KeithP - I'll rephrase with regards to the "therefore".

Le_Kirk - Yes, she is expecting she'll have to be there if it gets to court, just I'll do the talking.

Trainerman - And I'll make sure the lack of sign at entrance is emphasised in the Witness Statement.

No one mentioned it explicitly but I assume "It is denied that the Defendant was the driver" is fine then. So in general is the fact I was driver something I should continue to not volunteer throughout this? Do I have to say so if the judge asks in hearing?

Coupon-mad

Yes - if asked at a hearing.  But there is no claim against you so they'd have to start again at PCN stage if they wanted to pursue you.

Hopefully it will be discontinued at WS stage.

sed_grep

So I emailed the defence earlier today to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk before the 4PM deadline but didn't get an Acknowledgement back yet. Just logged into the MoneyClaim online account and there is no note of it there either. Decided to search the forum for issues relating to emails not received by them and have found one or two threads where people have had problems and the advice given appeared to be to call them about it. Is this still the best thing to do in this situation?

KeithP

sed_grep said:

...the advice given appeared to be to call them about it. Is this still the best thing to do in this situation?

Yes.      

sed_grep

Thank you.