Reasons to give for refusing a smart meter

Glass1970

Hi all,
We're on that dreaded THTC tariff no-one knows about and I know time is running out and SSE will be wanting to change us over and I suspect they will use the opportunity to force a smart meter on us.
I don't really fancy one because of what I've heard about energy companies all to readily switching them into pre-payment modes.
I know I'll be told I'll be getting a new meter soon but I'd prefer a non-smart meter.
Does anyone know if these still exist or are they all smart meters now. And if so I think I'll need to quote the rule book to them so they don't force a smart meter on us. Can anyone tell me what I should say?
Thanks.

MikeJXE

At one time we were inundated with calls to change to smart meter and I always said no thanks. now I have one I wouldn't be without it. 

[Deleted User]

The rule book says that they are allowed to fit a smart meter with or without your permission as your old meter reaches end of life.

If that's what you wish to quote, then feel free, but I'm not sure it's going to help you.

ariarnia

the rule book says if they need to replace your existing meter then they can replace it with a smart meter.

you can refuse a smart meter if your existing meter doesn't need replacing but don't have the right to demand a replacement dumb meter if it does (and you dont get to decide if it needs replacing or not).

as for suggestions. you could phone them and ask if they have any analogue meters or refurbished meters and ask if they will install one for you (the answer might be no if they just dont have the stock).

or you could ask the smart meter be installed and made dumb (not sending info) but from what ive read some will and some wont do this. 

the only other suggestions ive heard is to get an old dumb meter yourself. pay for it to be refurbished and certified. then pay your supplier to fit it. dont know if that would work or how you would make it happen. it would cost a bundle but if you really care that much. 

Gerry1

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/smart-meters/#optional

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/do-i-have-to-accept-a-smart-meter-aLLKl9O63dbM#what-is-a-smart-meter

Alternatively, the Electricity Act 1989 states that you can arrange to have your own meter installed:

1(1) Where a customer of an authorised supplier is to be charged for his supply wholly or partly by reference to the quantity of electricity supplied, the supply shall be given through, and the quantity of electricity shall be ascertained by, an appropriate meter.

(2) If the authorised supplier agrees, the meter may be provided by the customer (who may provide a meter which belongs to him or is made available otherwise than in pursuance of arrangements made by the supplier); but otherwise it shall be provided by the authorised supplier (who may provide a meter which belongs to him or to any person other than the customer).

(2A) An authorised supplier] may refuse to allow one of his customers to provide a meter only if there are reasonable grounds for his refusal.

ariarnia

Gerry1 said:

(2A) An authorised supplier] may refuse to allow one of his customers to provide a meter only if there are reasonable grounds for his refusal.

which i would think includes needing the meter to be certified. so does anyone know where someone could buy a single analogue meter and get refurbished and certified for a not completely stupid amount of money?

if musk wanted to do it then he could afford to buy a whole shipment of old meters and get them certified but theres probably a limit to how far a resonable normal person is willing to go to avoid having a smart meter 

Mobtr

If the main reason you don’t want a smart meter is because you’ve heard that companies can change you to PAYG, simple solution to that is pay your bills & it won’t happen. I really don’t understand all this fuss about smart meters, mine has save me a fortune 

EssexHebridean

Yes, Mobtr has cut to the chase here. OP - a supplier will only change a meter to PAYG if there is persistent debt, a customer is refusing to engage with them or the customer is engaging but is making any impact on the debt or it’s getting worse. If you keep your payments up to date then there would be no reason for them to change you over, as said, so nothing to worry about. Hopefully that’s set your concerns at rest. 

(Also as an added point - these days there is relatively little difference between cost on DD and cost on PAYG - for some users PAYG electricity can actually be cheaper, in fact!) 

[Deleted User]

Gerry1 said:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/smart-meters/#optional

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/do-i-have-to-accept-a-smart-meter-aLLKl9O63dbM#what-is-a-smart-meter

Alternatively, the Electricity Act 1989 states that you can arrange to have your own meter installed:

1(1) Where a customer of an authorised supplier is to be charged for his supply wholly or partly by reference to the quantity of electricity supplied, the supply shall be given through, and the quantity of electricity shall be ascertained by, an appropriate meter.

(2) If the authorised supplier agrees, the meter may be provided by the customer (who may provide a meter which belongs to him or is made available otherwise than in pursuance of arrangements made by the supplier); but otherwise it shall be provided by the authorised supplier (who may provide a meter which belongs to him or to any person other than the customer).

(2A) An authorised supplier] may refuse to allow one of his customers to provide a meter only if there are reasonable grounds for his refusal.

Those links you quote are misleading Gerry.  That's for optional replacement of meters, just like when they send the regular emails begging to put a smart meter in 

For an end of life meter, which something like THTC would be, the can fit a smart meter without the customers permission and it is not 'optional'.

Two different circumstances, two different rules.

Glass1970

Mobtr said:

If the main reason you don’t want a smart meter is because you’ve heard that companies can change you to PAYG, simple solution to that is pay your bills & it won’t happen. I really don’t understand all this fuss about smart meters, mine has save me a fortune 

Thanks all and I quite agree, if you don't give them a reason then they won't switch it into PAYG mode. However I asked because last month I received my bill and paid leaving £63 because I knew 20 days later I would get £66 from the Government to cover this and I didn't think the energy companies would care. I was wrong! Within 5 days I had a chasing letter threatening to wreck my credit rating and saying they were considering forcing a smart meter on us. I was surprised they couldn't wait for their money as it's guaranteed from the Government.

In my opinion smart meters are an easy way for companies to ensure their cashflow by passing the problem onto the customer by way of "self-disconnection" thus they never see the harm it causes.

My wife runs a shop and we have a little foodbank we hand out to local people but we're seeing people who won't take food if it needs to be cooked because they simply don't have any electricity on the meter to cook it. One lady comes in almost every day and has recently been switched to PAYG (admittedly because of debt) Now she frequently hasn't been able to have a shower in the morning, let alone heat her home or cook food. She sits in our shop all day because it's warm and she can get a hot drink.

Anyway sorry if this turned into a rant... I'm just not convinced the energy companies are working for anyone other than themselves, especially at the moment.

Views are my own etc etc...

Back to my original point. Thanks for the help, it doesn't sound like SSE will fit anything but a smart meter once they tell us ours has reached the end of it's life. I always believed PAYG rates were much higher too, we've heard people claiming to pay some astonishing rates but that might be to reclaim debt too. I'll find out what the rates SSE give without debt.

[Deleted User]

However I asked because last month I received my bill and paid leaving £63 because I knew 20 days later I would get £66 from the Government to cover this and I didn't think the energy companies would care

You are asking a lot of a supplier’s billing system. It is just an accounts package managed by a computer. The computer re-acted because you elected to confuse it by deliberately underpaying on your bill. Surely, a more logical approach would have been to wait until your account was in credit.

Energy suppliers are not social services. They are businesses which run on a very modest profit margin set by Ofgem for its capped tariff. If the CEO of BG is to be believed, we could well see more suppliers go to the wall this Winter.