Adidas World Cup Shirts Don't fit Advertised Size

km1500

To me it is very simple:

1. the shirts were not personalised (choosing from a drop-down box is not personalisation)

2. they were bought online

3. therefore the OP has an absolute right to return them for any reason or no reason - this is the law. Size / fit is irrelevant. You get a chance to inspect at home and if you ddon't like what you get then you can return it.

Point out the law to Adidas - if they won't play ball ask your card for a chargeback.

tightauldgit

km1500 said:

To me it is very simple:

1. the shirts were not personalised (choosing from a drop-down box is not personalisation)

2. they were bought online

3. therefore the OP has an absolute right to return them for any reason or no reason - this is the law. Size / fit is irrelevant. You get a chance to inspect at home and if you ddon't like what you get then you can return it.

Point out the law to Adidas - if they won't play ball ask your card for a chargeback.

Do you have a legal reference for your point 1 as everything I have looked seems to say that at best it's untested? Certainly manufacturers consider it customisation and say as much on their websites. 

user1977

tightauldgit said:

km1500 said:

To me it is very simple:

1. the shirts were not personalised (choosing from a drop-down box is not personalisation)

2. they were bought online

3. therefore the OP has an absolute right to return them for any reason or no reason - this is the law. Size / fit is irrelevant. You get a chance to inspect at home and if you ddon't like what you get then you can return it.

Point out the law to Adidas - if they won't play ball ask your card for a chargeback.

Do you have a legal reference for your point 1 as everything I have looked seems to say that at best it's untested? Certainly manufacturers consider it customisation and say as much on their websites. 

It's been interpreted in that fashion in the context of the EU Directive from which it originated, as discussed here:

https://ca.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/a-022-6666?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

"where the consumer simply make up the goods by picking from the standard (pre-set) options provided by the trader, such as colour or additional equipment in a car, or makes up a set of furniture on the basis of standard elements, it should not be possible to speak of either ‘specification’ or ‘personalisation’ in the narrow sense of this provision."

Manxman_in_exile

tightauldgit said:

km1500 said:

To me it is very simple:

1. the shirts were not personalised (choosing from a drop-down box is not personalisation)

2. they were bought online

3. therefore the OP has an absolute right to return them for any reason or no reason - this is the law. Size / fit is irrelevant. You get a chance to inspect at home and if you ddon't like what you get then you can return it.

Point out the law to Adidas - if they won't play ball ask your card for a chargeback.

Do you have a legal reference for your point 1 as everything I have looked seems to say that at best it's untested? Certainly manufacturers consider it customisation and say as much on their websites. 

Isn't the legislation quite clear in s28(1)(b) The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) ?

I don't see how it can be argued that a customer selecting options from a drop-down box provided by the retailer can be described either as "personalising" the goods or making them to "the consumer's own specification".

If you bought a shirt and asked for the name "tightaulidgit" to be applied to the back of it, that would clearly be personalisation.  But not if you asked for the name "Messi" to be applied to the back of it.

Furthermore, by definition, something put together according to options selected from a range provided by the trader has not been made to the consumer's specifications - they've been made from a range provided by the trader.

NB  Self-serving statements by manufacturers on their own websites do not necessarily reflect the law...

jon81uk

Manxman_in_exile said:

tightauldgit said:

km1500 said:

To me it is very simple:

1. the shirts were not personalised (choosing from a drop-down box is not personalisation)

2. they were bought online

3. therefore the OP has an absolute right to return them for any reason or no reason - this is the law. Size / fit is irrelevant. You get a chance to inspect at home and if you ddon't like what you get then you can return it.

Point out the law to Adidas - if they won't play ball ask your card for a chargeback.

Do you have a legal reference for your point 1 as everything I have looked seems to say that at best it's untested? Certainly manufacturers consider it customisation and say as much on their websites. 

Isn't the legislation quite clear in s28(1)(b) The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) ?

I don't see how it can be argued that a customer selecting options from a drop-down box provided by the retailer can be described either as "personalising" the goods or making them to "the consumer's own specification".

If you bought a shirt and asked for the name "tightaulidgit" to be applied to the back of it, that would clearly be personalisation.  But not if you asked for the name "Messi" to be applied to the back of it.

Furthermore, by definition, something put together according to options selected from a range provided by the trader has not been made to the consumer's specifications - they've been made from a range provided by the trader.

NB  Self-serving statements by manufacturers on their own websites do not necessarily reflect the law...

The Messi shirt isn't personalised but I would say it is made to specification. Size or colour is a standard pres-set option, but adding text to the chosen size is then made to the customers specification in my opinion.

I think if it was someone choosing a pre-set colour or size that is clearly not your own specification. But having something printed onto it to order is made to specification. They don't have a pile of age 8 shirts with messi printed ready to go, the printing is only done on request.

DullGreyGuy

Manxman_in_exile said:
Furthermore, by definition, something put together according to options selected from a range provided by the trader has not been made to the consumer's specifications - they've been made from a range provided by the trader.

NB  Self-serving statements by manufacturers on their own websites do not necessarily reflect the law...

Fully agree on your last point however there are many out there selling items as bespoke, custom, personalised etc when you are ultimately just selecting from drop down lists online... seen some that are fairly accurate, choose the sleave length of a shirt down to the mm.

On the surface it does seem slightly odd that simply by changing that box from a drop down to a free text box that it magically moves it from being off the shelf to bespoke.

Note that these types are notably different, in my opinion, to just choosing a name from a drop down which clearly is selecting an option not having something personalised.

jon81uk

DullGreyGuy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:
Furthermore, by definition, something put together according to options selected from a range provided by the trader has not been made to the consumer's specifications - they've been made from a range provided by the trader.

NB  Self-serving statements by manufacturers on their own websites do not necessarily reflect the law...

Note that these types are notably different, in my opinion, to just choosing a name from a drop down which clearly is selecting an option not having something personalised.

But the law states "the supply of goods that are made to the consumer’s specifications or are clearly personalised" so it is about being made to a chosen specifcation not just personalisation.
If the item isn't sat on the warehouse shelf ready to go and someone has to take it and do something do it that the customer has specified, does that not mean it is made to their specifcation?

Zinger549

jon81uk said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

tightauldgit said:

km1500 said:

To me it is very simple:

1. the shirts were not personalised (choosing from a drop-down box is not personalisation)

2. they were bought online

3. therefore the OP has an absolute right to return them for any reason or no reason - this is the law. Size / fit is irrelevant. You get a chance to inspect at home and if you ddon't like what you get then you can return it.

Point out the law to Adidas - if they won't play ball ask your card for a chargeback.

Do you have a legal reference for your point 1 as everything I have looked seems to say that at best it's untested? Certainly manufacturers consider it customisation and say as much on their websites. 

Isn't the legislation quite clear in s28(1)(b) The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) ?

I don't see how it can be argued that a customer selecting options from a drop-down box provided by the retailer can be described either as "personalising" the goods or making them to "the consumer's own specification".

If you bought a shirt and asked for the name "tightaulidgit" to be applied to the back of it, that would clearly be personalisation.  But not if you asked for the name "Messi" to be applied to the back of it.

Furthermore, by definition, something put together according to options selected from a range provided by the trader has not been made to the consumer's specifications - they've been made from a range provided by the trader.

NB  Self-serving statements by manufacturers on their own websites do not necessarily reflect the law...

The Messi shirt isn't personalised but I would say it is made to specification. Size or colour is a standard pres-set option, but adding text to the chosen size is then made to the customers specification in my opinion.

I think if it was someone choosing a pre-set colour or size that is clearly not your own specification. But having something printed onto it to order is made to specification. They don't have a pile of age 8 shirts with messi printed ready to go, the printing is only done on request.

They do have pre printed shirts with players names on. Especially with someone as popular as Messi as a lot of fans will want his name on the back.

DullGreyGuy

jon81uk said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:
Furthermore, by definition, something put together according to options selected from a range provided by the trader has not been made to the consumer's specifications - they've been made from a range provided by the trader.

NB  Self-serving statements by manufacturers on their own websites do not necessarily reflect the law...

Note that these types are notably different, in my opinion, to just choosing a name from a drop down which clearly is selecting an option not having something personalised.

But the law states "the supply of goods that are made to the consumer’s specifications or are clearly personalised" so it is about being made to a chosen specifcation not just personalisation.
If the item isn't sat on the warehouse shelf ready to go and someone has to take it and do something do it that the customer has specified, does that not mean it is made to their specifcation?

But if I choose size L and colour blue from a drop down on a random retailer's website how should I know if its sat on a shelf somewhere or going to be made to order?

It seems generally interpreted that customer specification is where the customer has free choice rather than selecting from a number of pre-set options. Unfortunately on a prior search was unable to find any case law on how the courts are interpreting these things.

jon81uk

Zinger549 said:

jon81uk said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

tightauldgit said:

km1500 said:

To me it is very simple:

1. the shirts were not personalised (choosing from a drop-down box is not personalisation)

2. they were bought online

3. therefore the OP has an absolute right to return them for any reason or no reason - this is the law. Size / fit is irrelevant. You get a chance to inspect at home and if you ddon't like what you get then you can return it.

Point out the law to Adidas - if they won't play ball ask your card for a chargeback.

Do you have a legal reference for your point 1 as everything I have looked seems to say that at best it's untested? Certainly manufacturers consider it customisation and say as much on their websites. 

Isn't the legislation quite clear in s28(1)(b) The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) ?

I don't see how it can be argued that a customer selecting options from a drop-down box provided by the retailer can be described either as "personalising" the goods or making them to "the consumer's own specification".

If you bought a shirt and asked for the name "tightaulidgit" to be applied to the back of it, that would clearly be personalisation.  But not if you asked for the name "Messi" to be applied to the back of it.

Furthermore, by definition, something put together according to options selected from a range provided by the trader has not been made to the consumer's specifications - they've been made from a range provided by the trader.

NB  Self-serving statements by manufacturers on their own websites do not necessarily reflect the law...

The Messi shirt isn't personalised but I would say it is made to specification. Size or colour is a standard pres-set option, but adding text to the chosen size is then made to the customers specification in my opinion.

I think if it was someone choosing a pre-set colour or size that is clearly not your own specification. But having something printed onto it to order is made to specification. They don't have a pile of age 8 shirts with messi printed ready to go, the printing is only done on request.

They do have pre printed shirts with players names on. Especially with someone as popular as Messi as a lot of fans will want his name on the back.

Adidas state that customised items are made for you.
"

• Please note that we are unable to accept any right of withdrawal from you for customised & personal items as these are made uniquely for you. These items can only be returned to us if there is a manufacturing defect.

Keeping every players name in every size would be a lot of inventory, which is why they do it to order. There are 24 players and five sizes, thats 120 different options, so makes sense they would do it to the customers specification and make them uniquely.