Chase unauthorised increase payment

jon81uk

missile said:

They said they would investigate. I appreciate Fossil may have made an error, none of us are perfect.

That was not the purpose of my post. I expected more from Chase. 

But at the moment it isn't anything to do with Chase, just Fossil. Not sure why you had the expectation of the bank solving this?

If it was completely unauthorised that would be different.

missile

jon81uk said:

missile said:

They said they would investigate. I appreciate Fossil may have made an error, none of us are perfect.

That was not the purpose of my post. I expected more from Chase. 

But at the moment it isn't anything to do with Chase, just Fossil. Not sure why you had the expectation of the bank solving this?

If it was completely unauthorised that would be different.

Like I said, I expected Chase to limit the debit to what I had authorised. 

Martin_the_Unjust

jon81uk said:

missile said:

They said they would investigate. I appreciate Fossil may have made an error, none of us are perfect.

That was not the purpose of my post. I expected more from Chase. 

But at the moment it isn't anything to do with Chase, just Fossil. Not sure why you had the expectation of the bank solving this?

If it was completely unauthorised that would be different.

So if I use my chase card to purchase something from an online shop (or even offline) am I then authorising them to take any further amount out of my account that they wish?

Sounds like a scammer’s paradise.

jon81uk

Martin_the_Unjust said:

jon81uk said:

missile said:

They said they would investigate. I appreciate Fossil may have made an error, none of us are perfect.

That was not the purpose of my post. I expected more from Chase. 

But at the moment it isn't anything to do with Chase, just Fossil. Not sure why you had the expectation of the bank solving this?

If it was completely unauthorised that would be different.

So if I use my chase card to purchase something from an online shop (or even offline) am I then authorising them to take any further amount out of my account that they wish?

Sounds like a scammer’s paradise.

If its completely unauthorised then I would expect the bank to take action.
But if it is simply the wrong amount I would contact the retailer first.

So shopping at Tesco and getting charge £55 when the receipt says £50, I'd contact Tesco to try and solve it. But if a transaction appeared for Sainsbury's instead of course I would report it as fraudulent and expect the bank to take action.

molerat

Fossil asked Chase if there was enough in your bank to pay a bill of £xx.xx, Chase said yes and held that amount to cover that request.  No money left the account.

Fossil then took a chance and asked for £yy.yy, their risk being the bank could refuse that new amount.

Exactly the same as any other bank works. 

Not all transactions will require authorisation and the majority of authorisation requests are based on the retailer requirements and floor limits rather than anything from the bank.

Chase have done nothing wrong and your beef is 100% with Fossil.

born_again

missile said:

Olinda99 said:

I have read this and still not clear (unless I have missed it) how you 'paid'

Can you confirm it was by debit card? I assume 'notification by Chase' was the push message on your phone saying debit card transaction for £195?

Can I also assume that the merchant then increased the debit card transaction?

If so, Chase are not at fault as that is exactly what a debit card (the clue is in the name) is for - for merchants to debit your account. When you use a debit card you are agreeing that the bank (Chase) pays all amounts debited using this card.

You complaint is with the merchant.

If you read the post you would know. FYI>Chase only issue debit cards. 
As I said, the correct amount was debited from my account, then it was increased to more than authorised transaction. 
Chase have not explained how this can happen.

Using your logic.

• If I buy an item online using Chase debit card, the merchant could request whatever he wants multiple times and Chase would pay it?
• What is the point of authorising a fixed amount?

You do not understand how authorisations work.
Bank approves the transaction, Retailer then takes the amount they require.
A couple of examples

pay @ the pump petrol. Most are now £100 auth. Then they debit the amount of fuel taken.
Amazon & other companies often auth for £1 or a nominal amount, just to check the card is live, then debit the full amount.
Another one is if you book flights in & out. Your invoice will show the full amount, yet on your statement it will show a separate amount for each flight.

So as you can see it works both ways. Bank only authorises the retailer to take the amount they require. NOT the authorisation amount they request.

So if you feel the amount is wrong. It is the retailer that has to sort it. Not the bank.

Olinda99

FYI (yet again):

A DEBIT card allows a merchant to take money from your account. Merchants are free to debit what they want, when they want, as many times as they want. Once they have the card number, any debits go through smoothly to your account. Any pre-authorisation amounts can be increased or decreased. The whole system is designed to facilitate this. It works extremely well.

Chase (or any other bank) only refuse payment if they suspect fraud etc  Chase do not restrict payments, police transactions, look after you, worry if the amount differs from what the customer expects, run checks on amounts. They just issue you with a card, and say the conditions of you having this card and that you agree any payments from this card will be debited to your account.

Once you understand this you will then know what a debit card it.

"So if I use my chase card to purchase something from an online shop (or even offline) am I then authorising them to take any further amount out of my account that they wish?"

Not authorising them, but giving them the means to do so should they wish. Chase (and no bank) will not stop them.

"Using your logic.

• If I buy an item online using Chase debit card, the merchant could request whatever he wants multiple times and Chase would pay it?

     YES of course - why wouldn't they?

• What is the point of authorising a fixed amount?"

     Authorising an amount just tells the merchant you do indeed have that amount in your account. It is a merchant protection, not a customer protection.


OK so what rights do customers have? Well, if they think an amount debited is wrong the first port of call is the merchant. 

If there is still no satisfaction then the customer contacts the bank and asks them to reverse the debit card charge. The bank will obviously listen to what the customer has to say about the transaction, and the bank may or may not decide to reverse it. However, even if they do the merchant can subsequently get it debited again.

If this system does not meet your needs or expectations then do  not use a  debit card.

missile

Thanks to others whoOlinda99 said:

FYI (yet again):

...

If this system does not meet your needs or expectations then do  not use a  debit card.

"System works extremely well", for everyone except the consumer?
Am I am the only one surprised to learn using a direct debit card for an online purchase gives the merchant carte blanche to debit my account for as much as he likes, as often as he likes, for as long as he likes? 

FYI> New credit and debit card rules from October 1: Know their impact on you (timesnownews.com)
 Mastercard United Kingdom | A World Beyond Cash | Leader in Global Digital Payment Solutions & Technology

Many thanks to other posters who gave responses without adding insulting comments. 

Marchitiello

I think one of the misunderstanding of how the process work is the purpose of  “in app” authorisation for the transaction. The app will show the merchant and amount of the transaction to be authorised, but the scope is to recognise the transaction, not to specifically authorise the amount shown.

it is not scammer paradise as if the transaction end up not being as expected/disputed (like in your case) you are covered by the chargeback scheme. Every bank in similar scenario (it happened to me with a U.S. company charging me twice) will ask you to contact the Merchant first and if the problem is not resolved, use the Chargeback scheme.

born_again

missile said:

Thanks to others whoOlinda99 said:

FYI (yet again):

...

If this system does not meet your needs or expectations then do  not use a  debit card.

"System works extremely well", for everyone except the consumer?
Am I am the only one surprised to learn using a direct debit card for an online purchase gives the merchant carte blanche to debit my account for as much as he likes, as often as he likes, for as long as he likes? 

FYI> New credit and debit card rules from October 1: Know their impact on you (timesnownews.com)
 Mastercard United Kingdom | A World Beyond Cash | Leader in Global Digital Payment Solutions & Technology

Many thanks to other posters who gave responses without adding insulting comments. 

No it does not...

If a retailer abuses the system in such a way, then their retail bank will take action & they could lose the right to process payments. 

You do realise that link is for India?