EDF Energy Bill and Government rebate

MattMattMattUK

Mumbles1956 said:

dunstonh said:

Mumbles1956 said:

I have got it now.
EDF have sent the rebates to my bank.
They have also reduced my bills accordingly.
They have then added them to my bills.
Ridiculous.
Why didnt they just send them to my bank.
Or just deduct them from the bills.
This was a system designed by a Village Idiot.

EDF had a peculiar way of showing it for those not on Kraken.   However, it was technically the correct way as it was money in and money out.    

Their old system was designed decades ago when billing was simpler and people didn't care.    The bolting on of functionality that was never dreamed of originally made it unwieldy.    This is why they are moving to Kraken.

I couldnt possibly agree.

The problem is, as Dunstonh has tried to explain, is that the billing system EDF used was never designed to process government handouts in the way they were asked to, they had to bodge it. 

Mumbles1956 said:

They processed the rebates three times.
Once when they paid them into our banks accounts.
The second time was when they discounted them from the bills.
The third time, when they added them to the bills.
Why could they not have just paid them into our bank accounts, 

That would have been incorrect from an accounting perspective, they would not have been correctly accounted for and would have not met the government's requitements for the processing of the handouts.

Mumbles1956 said:
or just discounted them from the bills.

Because of the way the scheme was set up, they had no choice.

Mumbles1956 said:

This would have meant just processing them once.

They would still have needed to have been accounted for in the same way, they were only processed once regardless, it however has to show for accounting practice.

Mumbles1956 said:

When Ilooked at my 6 monthly summary of my bill.
I thought I was looking at a definitive breakdown.
It showed the total of my 6 direct debits.
It also showed what I thought was my total usage.
And it added the rebates to the bill.
So I thought that they had paid me the rebates, and then taken them back.

Although, had I scrolled much further down the bill, I would have seen another summary of my total usage, with the rebates deducted.

So the first summary I came to was the total usage, less the rebates.

The EDF bills have not been the clearest, but the information is there for those that take the time to read it. 

Mumbles1956 said:

I still cant see why they would see crediting us with the rebates twice, debiting them once, and compiling two summaries, would make any sense.

The added the handout to the customer's energy account, as required by the government, they then that amount to the customer as required by the government, they then reflected that transfer on the customer's bill, it makes sense, especially once you account for legacy billing systems.

Mumbles1956 said:

Try explaining that to the proverbial man from Mars that just landed.

He would probably understand it, because he would not be starting from a position distorted by preconceptions and misunderstandings.

Mumbles1956 said:

Mobtr said:

I wouldn’t worry about it, it was months ago now & wont happen again. Not sure why people are still going on about it 

I can only speak for myself.
The reason I have been discussing the issue today, is because subsequent to a couple of months of email correspondence with EDF, we have finally resolved the matter.
They have seemed reluctant throughout to explain what they had actually done.
I dont really blame their staff for this.
It must have been quite embarrassing to explain to customers that they had processed the rebates three times.
Anyway it is all over and done with now, and as far as I am concerned, I am unlikely to mention it ever again.

Why would you have months of email correspondence with them, all the information is on the bill, if you choose to read it.

Mumbles1956 said:

I do have reservations about EDF, and how they manage accounts.
They sent me a refund of £256 in December.
I didnt ask for the refund.

It does not matter if you asked for it or not, there are Ofgem regulations they have to follow regarding credits and accounts anniversaries, they are not allowed to let customers get into debt, neither are they allowed to let them build up large credits and there is a complicated methodology for how that works over an annual cycle, hence your automatic refund.

Mumbles1956 said:

They then sent me an email last month, suggesting that I might wish to increase the amount of my direct debit, as we are coming in to Winter, and they were unsure whether or not the current amount would cover my bills.
Although had they not sent me the refund, I am certain it would. 

They will want to set your refund at 1/12th of annual usage as a minimum to stop you getting into debt, but going into winter if you have zero balance or a low balance they need to set it higher. 

If you do not like them trying to estimate the amount you need to pay as a Direct Debit, then move to variable Direct Debit, you will be charged every month for what you use, with higher bills in winter and lower bills in summer. 

Mumbles1956

The below is my summary.

Your electricity and gas bill We'll refund £254.02 on or around 7 Dec 2022
Your monthly energy payments are increasing For 04 June 2022 - 02 December 2022 (182 days)
The balance on your last bill (3 June 2022) £206.02 in debit
 You paid us credit £1,326.00 (6 payments of £221.00)
 Refunds £388.71 (Please see Your payment history for more information)
Your charges for this period (including VAT) £731.27
 Your new account balance £0.00

This is what happened.
They sent me the Oct/Nov rebates of £132.
They didnt send me the Dec rebate.
They reduced the refund by £132, in respect of the Oct/Nov rebates.
So they sent me £256.71, not £388.71
They finally explained yesterday, after a couple of months of emails, that had they sent the Dec rebate, that my refund would have been reduced accordingly, to £189.71.
However they didnt send the rebate, and didnt reduce the refund.

I took the summary above as an accurate breakdown of my bills.
Had I thought that they would process some of the refunds 3 times, and one of them only once, I would have looked for more details.
They clearly processed the Dec rebate only once, as they didnt send it to my bank, and also did not add it to my bill, they have only discounted it from my usage.
Something you have said they couldnt do.

born_again

If you are not happy, then vote with your feet & pick another supplier.
That is exactly why these switch systems were set up.

For people that were unhappy with who they are currently with. 

Mumbles1956

There is nothing on Uswitch at the moment.

QrizB

Mumbles1956 said:

There is nothing on Uswitch at the time moment.

And there won't be for some time. Suppliers aren't currently paying referral fees to uSwitch and their ilk.

Nevertheless, there are plenty of suppliers that you could switch to.

Grumpy_chap

Please forgive me if I am being particularly thick, but I still fail to understand the EDF billing with respect to the £67payments received from the Government.

For whatever reason, rather than simply showing these as extra monthly payments to the energy account, EDF actually transferred the payments into my current account.

The bill, however, shows the payments as charges twice.  It makes no sense whatsoever.  I should be £436 in credit.  Thanks to being charged for the £67 payments, I am only £168 in credit.  Surely, the Government payments should be a zero sum.

Please don't say "walk with your feet".  I'd love to, but EDF block moves for futile excuses.  Plus, all that will do is to bake in the losses from being charged for the Government rebate.

Spoonie_Turtle

The deduction on EDF's bills wasn't explicitly shown but if you look at the cost for usage and what they've actually charged you, the difference should have been £66/67 which is where they've applied the credit to your bill.  And then paid that amount of money to you, so they've overall taken less of your money and used the government money to make up the gap.

QrizB

Grumpy_chap said:

Please forgive me if I am being particularly thick, but I still fail to understand the EDF billing with respect to the £67payments received from the Government.

Have you read through all the previous explanations?

Try this thread, it includes bill images (obviously not your bill, but the principle is the same):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6468736/edf-bill

Grumpy_chap said:

For whatever reason, rather than simply showing these as extra monthly payments to the energy account, EDF actually transferred the payments into my current account.

EDF were required to do this by the Government. Blame them.

Grumpy_chap said:

The bill, however, shows the payments as charges twice.

It also shows as a credit twice, although you need to work through the numbers to realise it.

The total charge for energy used is less than the sum of its parts, by an amount equal to the EBSS payments.

Grumpy_chap said:

Surely, the Government payments should be a zero sum.

And they are.