What should an "average" 2 bed bungalow DD be?

Alnat1

Do you have TRVs? Keeping the bedrooms cooler during the day (doors closed) will help you use less gas.

Heated throws are great, warm you up almost instantly, no need to turn the thermostat up if you're a bit chilly, just go for a higher setting on the blanket.

k_man

liddyloo said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Number of bedrooms is a very poor proxy for the size of a property... we have a 2 bed flat but its 110m2 which is larger than the average 3 bed terrace house. Indeed our las house was a 95m2 3 bed and so smaller. 

Bungalows are typically going to cost more to heat than a house even with all factors being equal but in practice bungalows tend to be older housing stock with poorer insulation and therefore the difference is even greater. Most talk about the efficiency of bungalows but thats to do with downsizing not intrinsically because its a bungalow and assumes people were heating empty bedrooms etc. 

liddyloo said:

Have people found that paying for what you've actually used is better than paying a set amount? 

Define better?

Fixed DD protects you from the high bills of winter and low bills of summer and given most peoples income isnt seasonal it makes budgeting easier. It obviously can lead to certain tensions however if you either develop a large credit or debit as the numbers are wrong. This often is avoidable through regular provision of reads (or smart meter). 

Variable DD avoids that problem but means you can get very large winter bills to pay which may be ok if your income is seasonal and matches or if you are good at saving in the summer months to pay the higher bills of winter. 

Better in the sense of paying for exactly what we have used I guess. We simply cannot afford £363 a month, we literally don't have it. If we are £22 in credit from Sept - Nov with a payment of £134 per month it feels like an excessive jump. 

 The amount you pay over the long term is the same (assuming you get to approx £0 credit in the summer), and the average paid per month is the same for fixed or variable DD.
If the fixed DD is not affordable, then the variable DD cost in the cold months will be even less affordable.
 

macman

Double glazing installed?
One thing that puzzles me is why you would turn the 'stat up to 22C from 20C 'if its particularly cold'? That makes no sense. Regardless of the ambient temp, setting it to 20C will maintain a room temp of 20C. Increasing the 'stat to 22C does not heat the house up any faster, it just burns more gas. It is estimated that each 1C increase can put 10% on your gas bill-so that 2C tweak could add 20%.
When you say you 'can't afford it', are you allowing for all the govt support  already available this winter? You should have had £150 C Tax discount already, if in bands A-D, and now be getting £66/67 monthly electricity bill credit or rebate for the next 6 months: so that's £400.
We don't know your exact ages, but you may also get the Winter Fuel Payment including the Pensioner CLA (£300-£600) since at least one of you is a pensioner?
And the £150 Warm Home Discount since one of you is on UC?
That's a minimum of £1,000 towards your annual bill.
Finally, why are your annual usage figures only estimates if you have smart meters? Have you checked that the meters are actually sending readings back to the supplier? 
If the last bill was estimated, send manual reads immediately and query the error with the supplier, as they may well be overestimating your consumption.

chris_n

macman said:

Double glazing installed?
One thing that puzzles me is why you would turn the 'stat up to 22C from 20C 'if its particularly cold'? That makes no sense. Regardless of the ambient temp, setting it to 20C will maintain a room temp of 20C. Increasing the 'stat to 22C does not heat the house up any faster, it just burns more gas. It is estimated that each 1C increase can put 10% on your gas bill-so that 2C tweak could add 20%.

When the surroundings such as exterior walls or large areas of glass are colder then if you are reasonably close you will feel colder unless you increase the air temperature. In a better insulated space you don't get this effect. I know my place here in Austria is much more comfortable at lower temperatures than my UK house thanks to 200mm of external insulation keeping the external walls warmer despite lower temperatures. 

Spoonie_Turtle

macman said:

And the £150 Warm Home Discount since one of you is on UC?

Only if the property is old enough and large enough.

macman

chris_n said:

macman said:

Double glazing installed?
One thing that puzzles me is why you would turn the 'stat up to 22C from 20C 'if its particularly cold'? That makes no sense. Regardless of the ambient temp, setting it to 20C will maintain a room temp of 20C. Increasing the 'stat to 22C does not heat the house up any faster, it just burns more gas. It is estimated that each 1C increase can put 10% on your gas bill-so that 2C tweak could add 20%.

When the surroundings such as exterior walls or large areas of glass are colder then if you are reasonably close you will feel colder unless you increase the air temperature. In a better insulated space you don't get this effect. I know my place here in Austria is much more comfortable at lower temperatures than my UK house thanks to 200mm of external insulation keeping the external walls warmer despite lower temperatures. 

But a room temp of 20cis a room temp of 20C, regardless of the outside temp. The only difference is that, in a poorly insulated house, the heat loss will be faster, and so the boiler will have to run for longer and harder to input enough heat to counter the losses.

macman

Spoonie_Turtle said:

macman said:

And the £150 Warm Home Discount since one of you is on UC?

Only if the property is old enough and large enough.

it's based on the energy cost of the property, not age or size. 

chris_n

macman said:

chris_n said:

macman said:

Double glazing installed?
One thing that puzzles me is why you would turn the 'stat up to 22C from 20C 'if its particularly cold'? That makes no sense. Regardless of the ambient temp, setting it to 20C will maintain a room temp of 20C. Increasing the 'stat to 22C does not heat the house up any faster, it just burns more gas. It is estimated that each 1C increase can put 10% on your gas bill-so that 2C tweak could add 20%.

When the surroundings such as exterior walls or large areas of glass are colder then if you are reasonably close you will feel colder unless you increase the air temperature. In a better insulated space you don't get this effect. I know my place here in Austria is much more comfortable at lower temperatures than my UK house thanks to 200mm of external insulation keeping the external walls warmer despite lower temperatures. 

But a room temp of 20cis a room temp of 20C, regardless of the outside temp. The only difference is that, in a poorly insulated house, the heat loss will be faster, and so the boiler will have to run for longer and harder to input enough heat to counter the losses.

I agree, however what you feel when you are next to a cold emitter is very different. 

ariarnia

liddyloo said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Number of bedrooms is a very poor proxy for the size of a property... we have a 2 bed flat but its 110m2 which is larger than the average 3 bed terrace house. Indeed our las house was a 95m2 3 bed and so smaller. 

Bungalows are typically going to cost more to heat than a house even with all factors being equal but in practice bungalows tend to be older housing stock with poorer insulation and therefore the difference is even greater. Most talk about the efficiency of bungalows but thats to do with downsizing not intrinsically because its a bungalow and assumes people were heating empty bedrooms etc. 

liddyloo said:

Have people found that paying for what you've actually used is better than paying a set amount? 

Define better?

Fixed DD protects you from the high bills of winter and low bills of summer and given most peoples income isnt seasonal it makes budgeting easier. It obviously can lead to certain tensions however if you either develop a large credit or debit as the numbers are wrong. This often is avoidable through regular provision of reads (or smart meter). 

Variable DD avoids that problem but means you can get very large winter bills to pay which may be ok if your income is seasonal and matches or if you are good at saving in the summer months to pay the higher bills of winter. 

Better in the sense of paying for exactly what we have used I guess. We simply cannot afford £363 a month, we literally don't have it. If we are £22 in credit from Sept - Nov with a payment of £134 per month it feels like an excessive jump. 

i dont think anyone has said exactly yet. paying a set monthly dd or paying a variable dd based on monthly use. both ways you only actually PAY for the energy you use.

if you pay a monthly dd your annual energy bill cost is averaged out over the year (your dd is set to more than your use in summer but then less than your use in winter) and your monthly payment goes into an energy account (like a holding account). the bill is taken when due from this account and it can carry credit or go into debt because it balances over the year. if in spring theres a high credit balance you can ask for it back or ask for your dd to be reduced. it basically spreads the cost. 

if you pay a variable/monthly use dd you have to pay the full balance of your bill when due. so you normally have higher bills in winter and lower in summer. meaning your winter bills would be higher than your dd but your summer bills would be lower. 

i would say that if you are struggling with your monthly dd then changing to a variable bill in winter would be a mistake. if your dd has been set right at £363 a month then that's £4300 a year (which given what you have said about your gas use then it could be right). if you have the 'normal' seasonal pattern then moving to full bill at this time of year means you could have to find something like £600 when your bill is due in January but maybe only £200 or less in june. 

i would say if you can't afford your current dd then the best thing to do is to phone them and see if it can be set lower (you might find they overestimated your dd or they might even have a grant scheme available or you might end up in a bit of debt on your account but will have time to pay). then if you really want to switch to variable/montly use billing then it's probably best to do it after you have turned the heating off in spring. (and to then use the cheaper summer months to put money in a bank account ready for next winter). 

Alnat1

The OP said they have smart meters but then talked about estimates. It may be that the energy company can't get the readings from the meters and haven't been given correct readings by the OP for some time. It's really important that up to date meter readings are given to the energy company.